Would you have said something to this instructor?

[RJP]

So I'm DM'ing an AOW class this weekend at the local quarry (Dutch Springs) and am out with my two-diver student team on their multi-level dive. My guys are doing great, having just navigated to the sunken school bus attraction by compas in about 2' of vis. When we get to the bus we're very happy that there's good viz on the bus itself as they are peering in with their lights to check out the fish inside. (I've already briefed them that this is an overhead environment - NO ENTRY!)

We are re-grouping at the back of the bus to begin our ascent to the skill platforms when an OW class - lead by an instructor from another shop who I recognized from earlier in the day - comes barrelling down the line from the platform. And I mean BARRELLING to the point that the instructor literally ran right into my guys kicking at top speed. His students were bicycle kicking like crazy and pulling themselves by hand down the line to keep up with the instructor.

It gets better...

The instructor drops down to the bottom, and procedes to literally STAND on the bottom kicking up a huge cloud of fine silt. Vis drops from 20' to about 5' in an instant.

It gets even better...

He assembles his class - now also standing on the bottom - and then points into the rear door of the bus at which point the students kick and flail hands and feet and by any means necessary propel themselves into the bus, followed by their instructor. Where there had been 40' of vis inside the bus a moment earlier was now a complete silt-out.

My guys did a great job of making sure we were buddied up real close to each other, and then we swam around to the front of the bus, mostly because I genuinely felt it would be a good idea to be available in case there was some sort of emergency. Thankfully there wasn't, as all the divers and the instructor reappeared at the front of the bus, stood up in the mud, exchanged OK signals with each other, and then roto-tilled off to the next attraction.

Now, to a certain extent I was glad that the students I was with were able to witness this, as we had been discussing the need for trim/bouyancy/staying off the bottom, etc. It became a good teaching moment during the debrief later. That said, I have a few obvious issues with the instructor we encountered:

- running into my team without so much as a "sorry" shrug or an OK sign

- poor role modelling of skills (propulsion, bouyancy, trim, staying off the bottom, etc)

- taking his class into an overhead environment, compounded by silting it out

- in general silting up an attraction to the point it was most likely useless for anyone else at the lake for several hours

- putting my team at risk of buddy seperation/panic by silting up the environment

Now, I don't know this instructor and I only recognized him from having seen him with his class at the entry point earlier in the day. It's clear that he's not all that great an instructor - from his students skills and the way/where he lead his class.

So this is more of a "hypothetical" question rather than a "what should I have done" query:

- Would you seek out this instructor at the lake and say something to him?
- Would this vary by "who you are" - instructor, DM, "just a concerned diver"?

As a "lowly DM-C" I was more concerned with my group's welfare and that we were all able to learn from the situation, and moving on. But as a DM would it be appropriate, if not almost mandatory, to find the instructor and say something to them.

I don't want this to turn into an "agency bashing" or "overall poor instructor quality" thread, but rather keep it on the topic of "Do you say something?"

Thoughts?

 

[GrandpaScuba]

No use saying anything to this instructor. It would just be a pi$$ing contest. Simply use the episode as an example to your charges of the wrong way to do things.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

I've stopped people underwater when I saw them making a mess. I get in front of them, give the "halt" sign point at the mess they made and either wag my finger while shaking my head or give them the "shame on you" sign then I move on. Either they get it or they don't but it's not hard to find me if they want to discuss the matter after they get their garden planted and surface.
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[SteveAD]

Agree with bob. If that's how he teaches students, he obviously thinks he's right and you're unlikely to change his opinion. Confronting him will only make the situation messy. Maybe use the negative example to your people where he can hear it and the fact that multiple people are agreeing that his class was a fustercluck MIGHT send him a message.

You mentioned you are a DM candidate working with a class, definitely mention the incident to your instructor.

One thing that I would NEVER do is get in another instructors face in front of his students.

 

[stevewirl]

i would have started up a conversation with him when he returned to the surface took details and reported him to his dive school .

no point in going head to head ....... when dealing with people a large amout a deplomacy is required . I wouldnt have gone back to the bus this put your class in a dangerous position that if help was required that all your AOW class does not have all the nessary skills to help. not getting on at you ...... it was the other fool who put you all at risk even without knowing that a concerned diver like yourself would go back to keep a watchful eye .

id dive with a diver or dive school like yours any day

but any way i would have been indirect .

 

[RJP]

I wouldnt have gone back to the bus this put your class in a dangerous position that if help was required that all your AOW class does not have all the nessary skills to help. not getting on at you ......

We didn't go back to the bus, we were already on the bus, merely swam over to the other side of the bus before departing to our next destination.

That said, I know what you mean and I did think for a few seconds before deciding what to do. The students I had were doing well (this was dive 5 of the weekend so I knew they would be OK) plus once we were up on top of the bus and out of their silt cloud we were out of harm's way.

 

[Walter]

You might consider merely asking him questions. "I'm trying to be the best I can be. Maybe you can explain something to me, when you were teaching your class, why did you.........? Why is that a better option than.............?" Don't ask him anything in front of his students.

 

[Skeeter1097]

Is a D M Candidate higher thin a DM. Do you teach and have a instructor sine off on your work? I think I missed something.

 

[RJP]

Is a D M Candidate higher thin a DM. Do you teach and have a instructor sine off on your work? I think I missed something.

DM-C is "in process" of becoming a DM. I'm doing the internship portion of the class, where I'm functioning as a DM under the direct supervision of an Instructor.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

One thing might be informative.

Put yourself in the position of the owner of the dive shop this guy is teaching for. He receives a complaint. Whats he going to do about it? Whether he endorses the activities or not, if he is to do anything about it he'll need some facts in order to discuss them with the instructor.

Therefore, if you feel strongly enough about the behavior to want to do anything at all, in the future I'd write out precisely what you saw, in a point by point bullet style, then sign it. Put it in an envelope with a short cover letter, and mail it to the dive shop owner.

He receives it. the letter says 'Attached please note what I witnessed your instructor doing on this day at this site. I feel this behavior reflects poorly on your instructor and your shop, and increases your liability in the event a student is injured because ('open water students should not be in an overhead environment') etc.

* He did this.
* He did that.
* Next he did X, Y, and Z
* Finally the douche bag had the unmitigated gall to... (no...on second thought don't get carried away....)

By giving the shop owner some clear concise descriptions of what went on and how badly it sucked, you give the guy what he needs to sit down with the instructor and discuss what occurred to effect some change (or not).

It also documents for the record that you sent the letter in the first place. Who knows where that letter might wind up in the future, if some student is injured? A dive shop owner who truly cares (and is reasonably far-sighted) would take some sort of action, and would likely respond to your letter identifying the action taken - if only to reduce liability in the future.

At least, if I felt strongly enough about what I'd seen, thats what I'd do.

If you expect anyone to do anything about the situation, you need to tell them why they should act and provide them with the facts necessary to examine the circumstances with the offender.

IMHO. YMMV.