Worst trend in Scuba Diving instruction many of us have ever seen...Avoid Groupon!

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hmmm ... crawling across the bottom on their knees, unsecured consoles and octopuses, bicycle kicking (when they finally figure out how to get off the damn bottom) ... where are the instructors, and what are they teaching?

I see your point, Dan ... but I don't think this is a GropeOn issue ( won't "advertise" by spelling their name correctly) ... I think it's an issue with a dive center that's trying to churn through "customers" as cheaply as possible ... quite likely selling them overpriced "personal gear" in the process ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

The problem is not Groupon. I took this picture of just a "normal" class on the BHB last year:

The Thundering Herd!​

I think the title says it all. As far as I am concerned, more pool time with incomplete or incompetent instruction is not the answer. You can train an average person wanting to dive to have beautiful buoyancy in one or two pool sessions. There's no secret either: you just have to "want to". A great leader inspires those they are mentoring to emulate them. Do your students emulate you? How does that translate after the class?

 

[hijax]

Dan, if it's a marine sanctuary, couldn't it be reported to a state or federal agency?

 

[Peter Guy]

Dan -- You have identified at least several issues that should be discussed -- NONE of which have anything to do with GrpOn and one that does:

a. Poor instructional quality -- we all know it exists but unfortunately, is hard to change. I don't have any suggestions here except to try to work, one at a time, to show instructors and instructors-to-be that good instruction can be just as easy, if not easier, than bad instruction to do.

b. Poor choice of training site -- That is, perhaps, something you CAN do something about. IF the site being chosen is, in fact, a unique and fragile site, maybe the solution is to work with the Parks Department to ban training at the site. In our area, several govt. entities have banned training from certain areas (not that it is enforced very well, if at all, but it IS banned and if a similar stituation occurred, at least there would be a basis for complaining). Perhaps also get the training agency involved since at least one, if not all, are (supposedly) concerned with Environmental Impacts and (supposedly) make a big deal out of such. If nothing else, it might be a wake-up call to the shop -- again especially if one has video!

Unlike others here on SB, I make no pretense to be an "elite instructor" nor do I believe diving should be an "elite activity" -- I love diving and I love introducing the Underwater World to others. I'd love to have my shop use GrpOn (or LivSoc or ???) to attract people to the sport. I just need to make sure each one is taught well enough so that they don't make a mess of things.

 

[Tortuga68]

There's a thread about it somewhere

 

[danvolker]

The problem is not Groupon. I took this picture of just a "normal" class on the BHB last year:

The Thundering Herd!​

With all the photographers out at the BHB, maybe we need to begin shooting photos of good classes, and of bad classes, and letting people identify which shop is the good class, and which is the bad....positive re-inforcement, and negative re-inforcement.

Net doc....about that Gropeon linking...can you kill that ?

 

[The Chairman]

good instruction can be just as easy, if not easier, than bad instruction to do.

Truer words were never spoken. It's really a matter of "want" here.

b. Poor choice of training site

Peter, this is an awesome place for instruction, IF your students are prepared with good skills. There are plenty of areas AWAY from the bridge that allow instruction, both good and poor, to be conducted with absolutely no impact on the sensitive areas.

Unlike others here on SB, I make no pretense to be an "elite instructor" nor do I believe diving should be an "elite activity" -- I love diving and I love introducing the Underwater World to others.

Yeah man, those instructors who think they know it all, really upset those of us who do!

I'd love to have my shop use GrpOn (or LivSoc or ???) to attract people to the sport. I just need to make sure each one is taught well enough so that they don't make a mess of things.

Groupon, like any way to approach Social Media has both it's good sides and bad sides. Personally, I like it! I like the way it puts the seeds of desire into the average Joe's mind who sees Scuba Diving as an elitist sport. In fact, when I do presentations at DEMA about shops using and not abusing Social Media, I actually recommend it highly. Too many of them utilize Social Spamming instead and Groupon is a legitimate way to advertise. Of course, like the skimlinks we use to help monetize ScubaBoard, people who don't understand it will rail against it. I don't make a lot of money with ScubaBoard and can not understand why people think I should not make a decent living. Blocking ads does little except to deprive me of revenue. If you feel a real need for that consider our Go Red Program. No, it won't take out the skimlinks yet, but we're working on it.

 

[danvolker]

Dan, if it's a marine sanctuary, couldn't it be reported to a state or federal agency?

It is not actually a sanctuary designation, yet. It is a park, and it is a delicate and crucial estuarine system and marine nursery ground.
The last time we pushed, developers, Yachties, fisherman and collectors showed up at the meeting to fight the designation. They argued it was just one site within the intracoastal, essentially no different than everywhere else in the intra coastal. The yachties were deathly afraid of this injuring their traverses through the area, and the collectors of course selfishly believe all the rare life at the BHB should be there for them to take.

We have done some very extensive scootering around the area for over a mile in most directions....Even in the mangroves to the north about half a mile, there is nothing close to the level of biomass found in the BHB park area, and no where near the number of juvenile species.
The "Money" is against the BHB becoming a sanctuary...this has too many ramifications the "money" does not like.

There is still alot we can do without the sanctuary status.

 

[danvolker]

Dan -- You have identified at least several issues that should be discussed -- NONE of which have anything to do with GrpOn and one that does:

a. Poor instructional quality -- we all know it exists but unfortunately, is hard to change. I don't have any suggestions here except to try to work, one at a time, to show instructors and instructors-to-be that good instruction can be just as easy, if not easier, than bad instruction to do.

b. Poor choice of training site -- That is, perhaps, something you CAN do something about. IF the site being chosen is, in fact, a unique and fragile site, maybe the solution is to work with the Parks Department to ban training at the site. In our area, several govt. entities have banned training from certain areas (not that it is enforced very well, if at all, but it IS banned and if a similar stituation occurred, at least there would be a basis for complaining). Perhaps also get the training agency involved since at least one, if not all, are (supposedly) concerned with Environmental Impacts and (supposedly) make a big deal out of such. If nothing else, it might be a wake-up call to the shop -- again especially if one has video!

Unlike others here on SB, I make no pretense to be an "elite instructor" nor do I believe diving should be an "elite activity" -- I love diving and I love introducing the Underwater World to others. I'd love to have my shop use GrpOn (or LivSoc or ???) to attract people to the sport. I just need to make sure each one is taught well enough so that they don't make a mess of things.

Peter,
Thanks for contributing to this.
What do you think of photos published here of good classes and bad classes ( typically only the best and the worst) and then identifying what shop each is?

 

[tomfcrist]

Its already been said that this isnt a Gropeon problem, its a problem with the local shop. FWIW this isnt just a problem in your area, its a problem everywhere. Go to any local quarry on any given weekend in the summer, you will be seeing nothing while underwater due to the shops showing up with 15 students per group and they are all practically walking on the bottom. Personally i dont bite my tongue at all after thier students leave for the day.....there are alot of piss poor instructors out there teaching people to be piss poor divers, but when they do it near me, they find out what I think about it really quick like.