Worst exper. when cert.

[mongoose]

Good job. I think many accidents happen because people panic. As long as you have air, you do have time to think and react rather than panic. When I took my OW, my instructor had a habit of sneaking behind our back during the pool session and yanked our masks or regulators off once in awhile just to make sure that we would not panic in open water. About 17-18 years ago when I did AOW with her, on my first wreck dive, at 90ft, my reg free flowed. She just calmly handed me her octopus and signaled me not to surface. Since she let me use her air, she decided that the least I could do was to let her ride on my back for the next 10 minutes before we ended the dive. Probably not the safest thing to do but it certainly gave me a boost of confidence and to know not to panic and made the mistake of bolting at sign of first trouble.

Although I am a fairly new diver and am in no position, I suppose, to second guess an instructor... I am not sure I agree with this decision. IMHO, when any piece of life-support gear fails, especially at 90ft, it's time to get upstairs, period. (safe ascent rate & deco stops of course)

And... let's not be too hard on the DM in deep1's case. I just completed rescue, and let me tell you, when there is fecal-fan contact... it is unbelievably stressful, even in a mock scenario, even just watching it. You have to be very careful not to make two casualties by getting in the path of a panicked diver. Sometimes hesitation is the right call. What the &^$%? What's happening? Is it safe to intervene? Will I harm this diver more if I act? Is he panicking? What is he doing? I can't see through all the bubbles! I'm trained for this, I have to do do something, but what? What? What? Crap, he's heading upstairs... have to stop him, he'll embolize, oh crap! My octo... get the octo, put it front of his mask, make sure he can't grab my primary, etc, etc.

I'm not griping at anyone, I'm just saying ... emergencies are tough, tough, things to act in.

deep1, I'm a grateful things worked out in your situation...bravo to you for staying under control and not spazzing.

--'Goose

 

[deep1]

Don't understand the mechanism for failure though so maybe someone could enlighten me. If a pilot valve were to fail in the first stage, I would think that as the second stage is demand flow as well, the higher pressure would slam into the seat, but not cause a freeflow. It wouldn't be fun breathing from it, but I can't see how both stages would free flow on our hapless student. Anyone care to educate me?

I'll give it a try at explaining from my understanding. The second stage seal will open if to much pressure is applied to it because it would be the same thing as someone sucking(inhaling) on it. It is held closed by a spring or other similar device. The valve is set up the opposite of what you are thinking, instead of slamming closed it was slammed open. I guess one could think of it like a valve stem on a tire and you are the tire, taking air in but not letting it go back out that same way and the spring being mounted on the opposit side. This design of the system allows the diver to always beable to get air if it is there and eliminated an ancient problem with regulators sticking closed instead of open. This is the best I can explain it in simple terms that most can understand and not getting really long winded about it. To those of you who want to try and blast this explanation, yes I know it is a little more complex than this but this is only the basics of it.

The DM, he's a good guy and I get along with him well, don't put any blame or anything on his slow reaction because to put myself in his shoe....I'd be like "what the @&*^?" also. Would be kinda freaky to see this happen to someone, especialy on a OW training dive. Would dive again with him anytime!

As to questioning the serviceability of the equipment, well it was new. It was also sent off to the manufacturer after the incident and they had no idea as to why the seat failed. Just a freak accident I guess. But they did say the seat fractured into tiny pieces, almost nothing at all left of it. It was obliterated to almost nothing.

 

[TSandM]

It was interesting to read this experience. I think that sometimes, it's easier to remain calm and implement protocols when you just don't have the experience to know how dangerous your situation is.

In my third dive of the OW cert, we were to do a descent with visual reference to the line. We were diving in very poor visibility (about ten feet) which as far as I can tell is pretty standard around here. We were also dealing with some current, as the tide was coming in. My instructor and I began the descent in eye contact, but not touching one another. Quickly, the current pushed us apart. I still have problems with managing descents, and get vertigo when deprived of visual references, and with the visibility so bad, I quickly lost all sense of what was up and what was down. In that situation, I tend to do somersaults, and I suspect I was tumbling badly. I was still going down, but I wasn't at all sure of it, until I landed on my back on the bottom. Luckily, we were only in about 40 feet of water. I was all alone, but I had air, I wasn't too deep, and furthermore, my training had a protocol for what to do in this circumstance. "Wait 60 seconds, and then proceed to the surface and regroup."

I looked around and decided that waiting 60 seconds was ridiculous, as there was no way my instructor was going to find me in that murk, even if he had any idea where I had gone as I tumbled down. I put my computer in front of my face, watched the numbers to make sure I was going up, and not too fast, and swam to the surface. I come up about 75' from the float. I was completely calm through the whole event, except for the tumbling part.

My instructor, on the other hand, had just about had a heart attack. He had made three descents and ascents looking for me, couldn't see my bubbles because the surface was too choppy, and was terrified that I had ended up in dangerous depths, which one can apparently reach not a lot further offshore there than we were.

This is the advantage of naivete.

It didn't hurt that I was a trauma surgeon and am now an ER doc, and a lot of my job involves controlling myself in situations where one OUGHT to panic. Rehearsing bad situations and learning protocols to deal with them affords one the ability to retain some capacity for thought under stress, and that's exactly what my training did for me in this dive.

The instructor in question had just passed his exams, and I think I was the first student he had taken out alone. To this day, he can't believe I still like to dive with him

 

[annie]

Question - in this situation, should the DM have reached around and turned off the student's air to stop the hoses flying around? After making sure he was on the alternate air source of course.

 

[pelan-pelan]

Thanks deep1 - it's threads like this that are really helpful. Again and again it comes back to training in dive techniques and also the training that goes to the mind - rule 1 - don't panic. Well done deep1 - it's people like you that I'd want to dive with.

Many of us have had potentially bad experiences and it is always good to be reminded to pay attention to training - and get refresher courses regularly. I for one would be grateful for an occasional "mock incident" at pool sessions or someone just tugging on the regulator hose (see other post on OOA situation - my experience of being towed by the teeth - don't know if anyone would dare pull at my reg hose now!).

My experience - tank slipping - first time my fault due to lack of familiarity with US bindings. First dive after OW. Found myself amazingly cool. Hands behind back and held tank whilst buddy tightened strap - no prob - good communications with buddy, buddy very close, good buoyancy. Second time had faulty binding and exitted pool with tank suspended from reg hose in teeth (yep - teeth again). Still no prob.

Best experience - about dive number 15 realised I was going to throw up - remembered training, opted for keeping regulator in mouth as no large lumps expected, signaled buddy who was close, good buoyancy, hand on octopus in case reg clogged, went for it - cries of Huey, and resumed dive, fishes delighted with produce.

So who's had what else happen?

 

[DameDykker]

My experience - tank slipping - first time my fault due to lack of familiarity with US bindings. First dive after OW. Found myself amazingly cool. Hands behind back and held tank whilst buddy tightened strap - no prob - good communications with buddy, buddy very close, good buoyancy. Second time had faulty binding and exitted pool with tank suspended from reg hose in teeth (yep - teeth again). Still no prob.

Best experience - about dive number 15 realised I was going to throw up - remembered training, opted for keeping regulator in mouth as no large lumps expected, signaled buddy who was close, good buoyancy, hand on octopus in case reg clogged, went for it - cries of Huey, and resumed dive, fishes delighted with produce.

So who's had what else happen?

Thanks for the story!

I have had my tank slipping a couple of times - partly due to a bad tank band that absolutely HAD to be really wet to be set tight. Usualy I started to feel my sideways trim go and caught it and signaled to buddy for help before I had to tow the tank by my teeth :11: Then it dawned on me that I could acctually change the band - and have since changed the BCD.

Never had to throw up under water but just the other day I had to sneeze. Never tryed that before but no problem - again just keep the reg in mouth.