women's opinions wanted

[CuriousMe]

I know as a woman, I'm just looking to be treated in a respectful and courteous manner (as I would imagine anyone male or female is looking to be treated). Understand that there are some physical differences, don't ignore them, but don't dwell on them either....it's just all a part of learning to dive.

I would imagine that each student you meet will have some kind of challenge either due to their body type, preconceived notions, or physical ability...I guess the challenge of teaching is to help them recognize their challenges and give them the tools to get past them.

Have fun! <big grin>

My .02

Peace,
Cathie

 

[Scuba Princess]

Most of my DMs and instructors were very careful of where to "grab" me if necessary. I went through my training with a class of all men. All of my DMs and instructors were men as well. But the thought on my part was more of "don't treat me differently because I am a girl" than "don't grab me there". Obviously, if you have DMs and instructors who are thoughtful and careful you can have the best of both worlds.

 

[another mike]

Again, many thanks!

m

 

[mddolson]

All of the instructors, Dm's and AI's I have been associated with over the last 25 years have always been very proffessional.
My instructions to them in dealing with the opposite sex, has always been to be concious of the person's feellings, but in a stressful or potentially dangerous situation "do what's nessessary to solve the problem safely", and appologise after wards.

When training and practicing sports, with mixed sexes, there can be misunderstood actions. In addition to being a diving instructor, I was also a Judo instructor for 25 years.(now retired)
We practice many grappling techniques similar to wrestling.
It was often nessessary, to place my hand in questionable area on a female as part of a technique in practice or to demonstate while teaching. While teaching I am in full view of multiple students, so "groping" is not an issue.

During free practice, though we are in a one-on-one situation. During this kind of practice, there is usually a lot of grabbing, pulling squeezing, tripping, and holding to get your partner on their back to perform an immmobilization. If ever there was an opportunity for "gropping" this is it.

When considering the "Gropping issue" I'll ask you to ignore "where you were touched" for the moment. Shoulder, waist and crotch straps cross over what we generally consider forbidden territory, and in a response to a problem, we don't always have the luxury of picking the place of qickest response. Next ask" was this a glancing touch, which may have been accidental, if not did it LINGER, if it did what was happening, were you ( or the person) dealing with a problem, or was this unnessesary.

If you are satisfied with these questions, and you are still possitive this was truly "Gropping" , then it should be reported immediately. That kind of sexual harassment is not tolerated by any of us in the proffession.

If there is room for doubt, though I suggest you approach the DM, with the instructor present, and tell them you were uncomfortable with the way you touched during the situation, and give them an opportunity to respond.

Mike D

:blfish:

 

[WgOaLnFg]

I am new to diving, and although I am not a dm or an ai, I have often wondered how people respond to situations like this.

Although I am not a dm or an ai, I have been offered to assist with classes, and due to this, I am going to soon seek my dm, and possible move on.

With the thought of helping teach women, I only remember my OW class.

There were three students and one instructor. Due to a communication problem with one of the students, my instructor buddied me up with the only female in the class. When it came time to do some of the drills, such as air sharing, I was taught to grab her shoulder harness, to keep her close to me and facing me for easy communication. I worried about this only because, what if my hand was to slip, and I grab to low on the harness and make her feel uncomfortable.

Thankfully, there was no issue involved during this situation; however, I am worried about what might happen in future training classes.

My instructor announced to the whole class, that during the pool sessions, and during the ow sessions, that he may have to grab your shoulder harness, or other areas to teach techniques. Is this the best way to do go about this. Be straight forward, with it, or like someone else has already said, do it, and then appoligize for it later.

I've heard a saying once "It's easier to ask for forgiveness, than it is to seek approval." But during situations like this, where I have to physically touch someone, it might not be and it could lead to something more serious.

I hope this isn't straying from the original thread, or I hope I'm not welcome, because I am in the "Women Only" group.

Thanks!

 

[padiscubapro]

another mike once bubbled...
As a DM candidate; I was hoping to hear from as many of you as possible about things they loved/hated/wished they had seen in the DMs they have encountered. My wife had an unpleasant experience with a DM who seemed to think his card was a liscence to grope (you get the picture).

Any suggestions, comments would be greatly appreciated,


thnx in advance,

mike

Mike
Grabbing in what you wife thinks is an inappropiate place may be unavoidable.. If a person is screwed up on buoyancy or is about to bolt to the surface the instructor or DM will grab at whatever they can to insure there is no ascent.. I personally have grabbed a woman almost right between the breasts(from my position the easiest place to grab was a strap than ran across the chest), believe me coping a feel is the last thing on my mind.. My goal is to keep a person in place.. after getting a firm grasp on the person I adjusted my grip to a more suitable location.. We surfaced and discussed the matter immediately, starting with the reason why stopping here was of most importance.... Your wife should have discussed the situation with the instructor since the instructor was probably not aware and she felt she was groped.. If it was a legitimate grab maybe the reason would have been made clear and it could have been a learning experience...otherwise at least the instructor was made aware of a possible area of concern.

 

[another mike]

I never thought i'd get this kind of response! This is great! I guess i could be a little clearer(?). I watched my wife's confined water sessions(nothing else to do that day), after they had done BC r/r on the bottom they went one by one to this dm for a buddy check. Being ignorant at the time, i assumed that that grabbing the shoulder straps one at a time and running his hand down and back up the strap is not the way to ensure it is "on" properly (particularly when one does not open the buckles for r/r). It's only now, three years later, that i know that to be not ok. In most cases, checking the BC visually is sufficient to ensure that everything is in place. As stated before, this dm is no longer active and for various reasons i no longer deal with that shop; should i run into him again, rest assured he will be on the receiving end of an unpleasant conversation about ethics. There is a part of me however, that can't blame him since my wife is absolutely stunning and lord knows i can't control myself around her (i guess that's a good thing lol).

thnx again everybody!!!!!!!

mike


life is better
down where it's wetter
under the sea.........

 

[Conce]

Hi Mike!

First, sorry about my english (english it is not my mother language).

I had an unpleasant situation with the pool sections, with my instructor, on the first class of the OWC.

I was with difficulties with the exercise "swimming in the pool, turning my regulator with the tube of the mask", and while I was swimming, my instructor started with the others members of the class with the exercises down the water, without warning me.

When I realized the others were down the water, I went down with them and did my exercises. I was very upset with this. I guess the reason he did that is that he is lack of patient with the people who aren´t able to do an exercise properly because he is an instructor for 30 years.

Another thing I didn´t like about him is the remarks he made about my heigth (I´m very short, so I needed a bcd XS), and the school only had 2 of them that were been used by another 2 women in the class. So, instead of saying to me that the dive center didn´t have more of bcd XS (he is the owner of the diving center), he said "Why didn´t you grow?" (and I´m 30 years old).

The other day, I voluntereed to work with a different instructor.

But, I had very pleasant moments with DMs in Cuba and with a DM from Argentina. Basically, I like a DM who is polite, patient, friendly and who I can trust.

Good luck for your career as a DM. Treat people nicely.

 

[another mike]

Thankc chonce,

(don't know if my spelling is correct, high school was a long time ago; a friend of mine is portuguese).

thnx again for your help!

mike

 

[Conce]

Well Mike, your speeling is quite ok. It´s bom dia instead of bon dia.

Good luck for your career and for your life!