Wing size???

[cool_hardware52]

Tobin,

The 40 will cover you in most single tank conditions. The 30 may not cover you for some cold water diving depending on your size, your exposure protection etc. For the small size difference I would rather have the 40. I can also loan it to any buddy and it will work in a pinch.

Mark

Could you be more specific?


Tobin

 

[Dan Gibson]

I had the same problem when diving a single (AL80) in a drysuit (DUI 350 TLS with 400 g Thinsulate). Since I only needed about 6 lbs. max ditchable in this scenario, I needed to add weight to the backplate in the form of a Halcyon weighted STA and some trim pockets. The 27 lb. wing would not quite float the rig without me in it. It darn near ended up 100+ feet down at the bottom of the mine at Bonne Terre when I got out. Only the quick reaction of a buddy and the shock cord on the backup saved the rig. I believe the 27 lb. rating is a little overstated. It is more like 23 to 24 lbs in my experience. The 36 lb. wing provides enough lift for this setup.

I don't have Eclipses but I have two different sizes of Pioneers. I usually use the 36#er for cold water diving, but tried the 27 for giggles one day. It was fine during the dive and chilling in the rig(PST steel 100, ss BP, drysuit, thick undergarment 400g, all weight on rig, salt water, can light) but was a little dicey floating the rig all by itself.

But up here, I know a lot of people diving the 30 Eclipse and having no problems. What does your local Halcyon dealer say?

 

[mer]

I had the same problem when diving a single (AL80) in a drysuit (DUI 350 TLS with 400 g Thinsulate). Since I only needed about 6 lbs. max ditchable in this scenario, I needed to add weight to the backplate in the form of a Halcyon weighted STA and some trim pockets. The 27 lb. wing would not quite float the rig without me in it. It darn near ended up 100+ feet down at the bottom of the mine at Bonne Terre when I got out. Only the quick reaction of a buddy and the shock cord on the backup saved the rig. I believe the 27 lb. rating is a little overstated. It is more like 23 to 24 lbs in my experience. The 36 lb. wing provides enough lift for this setup.

That's another point, the ratings on the wings are not always an accurate representation of their lift. If the 30 Eclipse is actually a 30# lift, then you should be fine unless you are diving overweighted.

Check with your local dealer, they are often the best resource on this.

 

[frogdrvr]

Thanks for all the info. After speaking with the local Halcyon dealer, I purchased the 40lb wing. Halcyon recomends it for larger steel tanks >80s.

 

[lamont]

typical cold-water steel tank drysuit math looks something like this:

-10# steel tank
-5# backplate
-10# weightbelt
-1# can light
----------------------
26# more or less, which means that in the event of complete buoyancy failure at the beginning of the dive you should be able to get enough lift to get neutral with a 30# wing. alternatively, even if you move all your weight to p-weights or tank weights or ACB system or whatever, you should be able to float the rig.

i still think the 40# wing isn't going to inconvenience you, though, gives you a little more room for error, and is nice in >= 4ft seas when it really pulls your head out of the water...

YMMV.

 

[cool_hardware52]

That's another point, the ratings on the wings are not always an accurate representation of their lift. If the 30 Eclipse is actually a 30# lift, then you should be fine unless you are diving overweighted.

You are exactly right here Mer. Actual lift and rated lift can be two different animals.

If you want to test, all you need is a scale, and some H2O. Weigh your wing empty, record the value.

Mount your wing on a plate, fit a tank, and fill the wing 'till the opv pops. Make sure you chase all the bubbles out the fill hose.

Remove the tank, and wing. Weight the wing full of water. The difference in the two weights is the lift.



I must say at times I find these wing lift discussions entertaining. People seem to want canned answers, not the tools to find the actual answer.

No too long ago, most folks were scuba diving with NO BC. Now 40lbs seems the minimum recommended.

Now I know some things have changed, mostly exposure suits, but in reality most divers could do quite well with 15-20 lbs of lift.

Regards,


Tobin

 

[RTodd]

i still think the 40# wing isn't going to inconvenience you, though, gives you a little more room for error, and is nice in >= 4ft seas when it really pulls your head out of the water...

YMMV.

That is the real answer. Halcyon quit making the 18# wing (their best warm water wing) because most people get nervous if their open water wing doesn't float them chest high in the water. Same thing goes for the 30 vs. 40lb wing.

 

[Abbenhuys]

Wing Lift is more about exposure suit than tank.

If diving wet, roll up the suit, throw it in the pool and add weight 'till it's nuetral.

If diving Dry, put on DS with the undies you use, get in the pool, no other gear. Vent till you have a "normal" amount of air in the suit.

Grab a weight bag and add weight 'till you are nuetral.

Either amount of weight represents the max you can loose, or need be compensated for.

Wetsuits will be somewhat positive down to ~165 FSW.

If you suffer a total flood of a DS, you can't loose more than the valuse of the test weight.

As long as you are neutral at the surface with no gas in your wing these calc's are valid.

It takes a hugh thick wetsuit, or a DS with thick undies on a big guy before you need more than 30 lbs in my experience.


Regards,


Tobin

Tobin,

I read your first response to test the req amount for the wing size, but I wasn't exactly clear on the method... I have a 7mm wetsuit and a 30lb wing, but I want to be correctly weighted AND trimmed... any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Gerry

 

[cool_hardware52]

Tobin,

I read your first response to test the req amount for the wing size, but I wasn't exactly clear on the method... I have a 7mm wetsuit and a 30lb wing, but I want to be correctly weighted AND trimmed... any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Gerry

Gerry,

I can't help with trim, that's all you in the pool, after you get your total weighting figured.

Wing lift, or sizing is all about exposure suit. Your wetsuit is the only thing that looses lift as you go deeper. Your body doesn't, your tank get lighter as you breathe it down, but your wetsuit compresses and looses buoyancy.

Take your wetsuit, roll it up and throw it in the pool. Hang lead on it 'till just starts to sink. The Lbs of lead necessary to sink the suit represents the max buoyancy you can loose. This is also the max you will every need to "COMPENSATE" for with a BOUOYANCY COMPENSATOR"

All of the above assumes you are properly weighted, i.e. eyelevel at the surface with zero air in your wing.

In my experience even a 7mil on a fairly large guy doesn't take more than 22-24 lbs to sink. Keep in mind that you have to go to ~165 fsw to completely zero out a neo wetsuit, bad idea on a single tank. Assuming you aren't exceeding 130, even there your suit will retain some of it's buoyancy.

Sorry if I'm not being clear, fire away if you have more questions.


Tobin

 

[mweitz]

Drysuit, 400G Thinsulate, 25# weight, and choppy seas.

Or, Drysuit, DC TPS Thinsulate Extreme, 22# weight and a long surface swim.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Under what conditions / equipment / etc would you find the 40lb wing neccessary, and the 30 lb wing inadequate?


Tobin