Wilmington Incident - 16 Oct

[Grish]

Grish, I appreciate what you are saying.

However, I am concerned that if we wait indefinitely, we may never really learn much. How long must one wait for all leads to be exhausted?

This incident raises a number of questions. An experienced diver appears to have died under unusual circumstances. Did the diver become separated from her gear? Was she in fact alone? If so, did the dive begin as a solo dive?

We can analyze known facts in an appropriate way. I think we can extrapolate while showing respect for injured divers.

Keep the Thread open.

We wait at the very least till the coast guard is done. And, dive2deep4you was present. I also know everyone involved.

 

[ScubaSteve]

With all due respect, please refer to the Special Rules (see the sticky as well as below) for this forum. If you wish to request a formal change to the rules of this forum then please approach SB Staff.

The purpose of this forum is the promotion of safe diving through the examination and discussion of accidents and incidents; to find lessons we can apply to our own diving.
Accidents, and incidents that could easily have become accidents, can often be used to illustrate actions that lead to injury or death, and their discussion is essential to building lessons learned from which improved safety can flow. To foster the free exchange of information valuable to this process, the "manners" in this forum are much more tightly controlled than elsewhere on the board. In addition to the TOS:

(1) You may not release any names here, until after the names have appeared in the public domain (articles, news reports, sheriff's report etc.) The releasing report must be cited. Until such public release, the only name you may use in this forum is your own.
(2) Off topic posts will be removed and off topic comments will be edited.
(3) No flaming, name calling or otherwise attacking other posters. You may attack ideas; you may not attack people.
(4) No trolling; no blamestorming. Mishap analysis does not lay blame, it finds causes.
(5) No "condolences to the family" here. Please use our Passings Forum for these kinds of messages.
(6) If you are presenting information from a source other than your own eyes and ears, cite the source.
(7) If your post is your hypothesis, theory, or a "possible scenario," identify it as such.
(8) If your post is about legal action that concerns a mishap, use the Scuba Related Court Cases forum.
Thanks in advance,

 

[dive2deep4you]

Yes, I was there. I have no issue with discussion of this issue, but feel that without all the facts it is only speculation and serves no purpose. No different than idle gossip. I only ask that everyone has the class to wait for the investigation to be finished so that this can be discussed properly.

 

[dive2deep4you]

Once again, I only ask that everyone wait until the facts have been stated. I cannot prevent speculation, however, we all can understand how idle gossip can cause hurt. Once the facts are out, I will be happy to answer questions and encourage participation. I am only asking for a voluntary act of respect.

 

[BDSC]

Yes, I was there. I have no issue with discussion of this issue, but feel that without all the facts it is only speculation and serves no purpose. No different than idle gossip. I only ask that everyone has the class to wait for the investigation to be finished so that this can be discussed properly.

Since you were there, at this time what facts do you know about what happened?

 

[BUGBAGGER]

Once again, I only ask that everyone wait until the facts have been stated.

I do not want to come across as brash or insensitive but as others have tried to convey your wish or desire that discussiion wait until facts are available is not realistic nor is it congruent with the goal of this forum. By the time any "facts" become available from sources such as the Coast Guard, if they ever become publicly known, the topic is not current and those who wished to learn from it have lost track of the story.

I would ask that you think about thee questions realisitically in terms of other accidents of which you may have heard. How, from whom, and when do you think that "the facts" will be "stated" or released? Especially, how will this occur if those who may have at least some direct knowledge are waiting until some other unknown source releases information.

As has been said over and over again in this and other similar forums, accidents and incidents involving recreational divers that are "investigated" by the Coast Guard are not investigated in the same manor nor are the results released in the manner that they are in incidents like airplane crashes that are investigated by the NTSB.

Rarely are facts or any details of the investigation released by the Coast Guard to the general public. In those instances when they are released, the information usually comes out months or years later. Any info that is eventually released is usually extremely limited, incomplete, and not inclusive of conclusions.

We will likely never know exactly what happened. However, if folks who have made similar dives to that location, or folks who were diving that day at that location, or others who dove with the victim, want to share information about the environmental challenges of the site, the conditions of the day, or the equipment configuration used by the victim or commonly used by other divers conducting that type of dive we may be able to have an exploratory discussion and hypothesize potential risks that may have developed and potential solutions to those risks.

Others might even be able to share near-miss situations in which they might have found themselves in similar locations or conducting similar dives. Perhaps someone else has experienced something at that site that caused them to ascend in a similar manner and by grace they were saved from the same fate. They might be able to shed light on a situation that could help a diver there in the future.

Our hypotheses may or may not hit on the exact cause of this tragic incident but I'll bet we will gleen some helpful info from the discussion from which many can learn. The discussion is a starting point, a path, not a destination.

While I respectfully appreciate your wishes and your willingness to express them I think they are misplaced in this forum. Perhaps you will reconsider how you contribute to this forum. If you do not wish to share facts that you know of this specific incident, maybe you can share facts of the site, risks of the site that might not be known to all (entanglement, disorienting terrain, unusual marine life encounters that might cause one to be startled or injured) or other near misses you have known of so that we might understand some of the potential causes if not yet the exact cause.

After all, accident analysis almost always points to more than one cause. Whether it is a car accident, an airplane accident, or a diving accident there are usually contributing factors and identifying those or making them better known so that preventative measures can be used often benefits the majority. For example, a car accident might have been primarily due to faulty brakes on the car involved. During the investigation, as the police examine the scene and take down measurements and info they may note that dangerous curve signs are missing, that changes in the roadway warrent a change in the posted speed limit, and that a sign should warn that use of low beams is recommended due to frequent fog in the area.

I know this is wordy, but I hope it helps you to see that responsible consideration of any possible cause can help other divers to better prepare and avoid accidents.

 

[openmindOW]

Yes, I was there.

That's interesting. Was that fact mentioned in your earlier posts? Perhaps I missed it.

What was your role? What can you tell us? If you were there, you must have observed something first hand.

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

Speculation doesn't do much to help the deceased. It does a great deal to help the living--continue to live. A few years ago as a new diver I read almost every single thread in the accident forum. One thread in particular I will never forget. It was a thread full of speculation. There was never a definitive conclusion on why the fellow passed away. HOWEVER, one scenario presented was very much like what I found myself in just a couple of weeks later. I was alone, deep and in serious trouble. My buddies swam off deeper after I gave the up and trouble signals. It was the solutions presented to that speculation that helped me to pull that dive out. I would not be here without that speculation and solutions presented to solve that possible problem. I wrote about the incident at the time. I made a series of errors in judgement that put me in a place I never should have been. I realized at the time I had made bad decisions. I needed a safe way back to sunlight and fresh air. That thread was my comfort and direction as to what to do to get back home. I don't know how many folks these speculative threads have saved, but I know for sure they have saved at least one. I am grateful beyond words for this board in general and this particular sub-forum specifically.

 

[highlandfarmwv]

Let me just mention-- I also was present on the boat, and even we on the boat do not know what happened. Amy was spotted without gear floating face down about 75 yards off the bow. Everything else is conjecture at this point. Rescue attempts were done by the book, nothing more could have saved her.

Amy was one of those really really good people you meet in this life. I will miss her greatly.

My dive computer recorded a depth of 109 ft there.

 

[openmindOW]

. . . spotted without gear floating face down about 75 yards off the bow.

I am very sorry about the loss, and I am sorry that you witnessed this terrible incident.

So, it sounds as if you are confirming that the diver surfaced without her gear. I am very sorry to hear that.

Did the diver have her mask on? Was she wearing a wetsuit or a drysuit?