Wildlife habitat.

[TwoBitTxn]

I posted something similar to this buff, but I'll try a little different approach.

In Texas our wildlife dept receives NO state funding. It derives ALL of its funding from license and regisration and fees and citations. Over half of all that funding is from the sale of hunting and fishing licenses. Say the antis were able to ban hunting and fishing in Texas. The Texas department of wildlife and all the hard work they do to keep state parks open, and lakes in good shape, and take care of the states game animals would cease to exist.

Man is an apex predator. Man is the only apex predator that does not suffer a significant level of predation. It is a known fact from extensive wildlife studies animals will reproduce beyond the holding capacity of the land they live on. Man included. Once this happens there is a very significant rise in disease and starvation. This can be prevented thru, in the wild, a healthy level of predation. So I give you this option. If you knew beyond all shadow of a doubt you were going to die by disease and or starvation and thirst, or you could have someone put you out of your misery in a very quick and painless fashion, which would you choose. Thousands of animals die every year because man does nothing. If you ban hunting that will only get worse because there will be no one doing what is done now to prevent it.

 

[Fishkiller]

Buff

you mentioned the " multiply and replentish" quote the one I mention is the " and shall have dominion over them" I believe that it should read have respect for them. I know it is a crime that the leaders of some nations allow the wholesale slaughter of creatures. They will be held accountable. What do you think ? What about the person I confronted after catching a large sized carp and just tossed it in the trash? "because I don't like them"

"there in all things should be moderation"

The words of Starfish are good I like those.

I feel that the education of animal rights should be taught not the equality or humanization,( hooking a fish, argh,an ichthyologist will tell you they don't have the same nerve system as a human it's a struggle of wills not of pain) animals serve a purpose and shouldn't be abused, that is a sad news story about that Right whale, we all pay the price for that abuse.

You're on a scuba board maybe you dive? Do you contribute to AWARE?

 

[sea nmf]

Yes, I also do not purchase commercially caught seafood. I suggest looking at the Monterray Aquarium site. When I tell folks I don't eat fish, that is when I get a chance for a wee bit of education.

I will eat other kinds of meat because we are not in danger of wiping out cattle or chicken. At least as far as I know. I don't like the taste of wild animals but I don't object to hunting.

I am not aware that sport fishing is having that large an impact on the environment but I'll look into it.

This is a great thread!

 

[BetterLateThannever]

But only the brand Charlie recommends? Does that count?

OBTW, How do I tell when I am standing in front of the meat counter at the local supermarket, if the fish spread out over the ice is "commercial" or not?

As to the hunting and fishing thing...personally I have never hunted, just don't get it. But I would certainly fight for your right to. I used to fish, but eventually lost interest in that as well...so what? I agree with Warhammer's observation about the miniscule impact a man with a pole has on the eco-system.

And finally, I am not sure what you were trying to say Buff, with your comparative importance scenario between Wright whales and humans. I am of the opinion that all the whales in the world are not worth even one of the most "worthless" humans.

Just my .02.

Jimbo

 

[Iguana Don]

Want to do your part, quit eating lobster, smoked salmon, salmon steaks, shark fin soup, swordfish, flounder, tuna fish sandwiches, red snapper, shrimp, oysters, mackeral etc.

Until the public and the world governments decide to take a stand, there isn't much that can be done. Except to stop the demand for the product.

Man has overcrowded this planet so much that the wild life that is left has to be managed, this includes the necessary population controls that the hunters provide. If not then you have all those magnificent creatures starving to death.

Am I anti-hunting, no I am not, just can't afford $500.00 a pound for venison. That's what the average deer hunter pays for his reward.

Why not start erradicating humans, then the animals will have a place to live.

BTW.....Buff, are you a vegetarian? If not, then what are you ranting for?

ID

 

[buff]

I guess a knee jerk reaction is better than no reaction at all. I am not vegetarian..I'm too weak. $500.00 dollars a pound for venision....I would like to see how those statistics are arrived at, I bet that includes the $400.00 worth of "cammo" and a 12 pack of Miller Light??

Iguana, why do you think that man has overcrowded this planet?? I have read studies from the Heritage Institue that detail how all of America can live in Dallas County. Is there a problem with living in Dallas County???

As far as "magnigicent creatures starving to death" what do you think happens to most animals in the wild....die of old age??? Fail to get the correct prescription drugs??? Struck by SUV's???-THEY STARVE TO DEATH......Nothing "goes to waste" in nature, we just like to think it does, it justifies what humans do-hunt.

I would like to hear just one hunter say "I like to kill things". Wcoyote, when asking to where to find a bangstick, didn't even tell the truth when asked what he was going to do with it...."uuummm, I'm going to be diving in shark infested waters(wink-wink)". I think most hunters find a little remorse in what they do, that's why ol' wcoyote had to lie.

 

[buff]

Hey gang!!!!!!
I have to hang up the computer and pack for Bonaire.....thanks for writing on this subject-yeah, even though not everyone has the same opinion as me I like that people take the time to reply......though, what if everyone had the same opinions as me????hhmmmmmmmm.........

 

[Warhammer]

Originally posted by BetterlateThannever
I am of the opinion that all the whales in the world are not worth even one of the most "worthless" humans.

I'll have to disagree with that. In the US alone, the prisons are filled with murders, rapists, and etc, that I'd gladly trade to save a few whales, let alone all of them. but I guess that's just the Southerner in me shining through once more. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for rehabilitation for the common good of humanity, but there comes a point in time when it doesn't work. but that's another discussion and NDR as well.

Originally posted by Iguana Don
Until the public and the world governments decide to take a stand, there isn't much that can be done. Except to stop the demand for the product

You're 100% correct. As long as there is a demand, there will always be someone willing to supply (for a price). It's one of the laws of nature in it's simpliest form. I'll gladly give up most of those you mentioned except the shrimp. If they were at risk, then I'd give them up as well. But then again, while they may not be at risk, the fisherman netting for them could be effecting another species that is. That's something I haven't thought much about.

Originally posted by buff
$500.00 dollars a pound for venision....I would like to see how those statistics are arrived at, I bet that includes the $400.00 worth of "cammo" and a 12 pack of Miller Light??

Allow me to translate that for you. First you have the cost of the gun. Now you could get by with single shot 12 gauge shotgun for under a $100, but just as with divers, hunters perfer the best. So you must have a high dollar rifle for say around $800-$1000 minimum. Then you also have to have the latest and greatest in optics(that's scopes in the south, hehe). That's gonna set you back at least another $600 to $1000. Then you need a portable tree stand for stand hunting, that's another $150-$300. You'll also need camo clothing in the latest and greatest pattern. That stuff ain't cheap and you can literally spend till your hearts content, but will say the average hunter might spend $600 for medicure camo. If you want top notch, like Browning, then that'll easily cost you $1000 just for a coat, overalls, pants, shirt and 1 set of good thermos. Then you'll need lots of gadgets like, scents, scent dispensers, calls, butt warmers, hand warmers, and etc, if you want to get "in the loop". We'll say you might spend $300 there. Oh, and you might also want an ATV to get you way back where the "big boys" are. That's another $7000 plus a $600 trailer to pull it on. Now it wouldn't be fair to add the cost of something like say a 4 x 4 to pull that trailer with, but don't forget that part. Then if you decide to take up dog hunting, notice I said dog hunting and not deer hunting with dogs because mostly you'll be hunting dogs not deer, you have to factor that in. If you self-train your dogs you can get out with a intial investment of around $300 for the pack of dogs, but they do like to eat. Last time I had a pack, I was spending somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000 a year on food and meds for the dogs. Then you have to add in the cost of gas for keeping them in shape (running them) and hunting them. I spent an average of another $1000 a year here if i didn't hunt very hard. One season, where I hunted everyday for the entire season (2 months long), I spent right at $1300 just on gas. So considering most average hunters kill 2 deer per season, and that that tanslates into about 100lbs of eatable meat, you can easily see where it would the some very high priced meat per lb.

I would like to hear just one hunter say "I like to kill things".

Ok, I'll say it. There is nothing like spending 2 years searching, tracking, planning, try to out think and manuver, and finally (if your lucky) killing a "mature" whitetail buck. I like the taste of venison as much as the next guy, but that's not why I use to hunt to the degree I did. I did it for the thrill and nothing else. It's kinda like scuba diving in that way, highly addictive. But it also is no small task to take a mature deer. That's why I usually refrain from discussing the issue with those whom don't have a clue what's involved. They think you just get a gun, go out and sit and wait for the deer, shoot him and that's that. Nothing too it. That's pure BS. Sure you can do that and take the first one that walks out, if you're in the right spot, but that's not hunting, that's what hunter's call "meat hunting". It takes skill, dedication, and money to take a mature buck, don't let anyone tell you differently. Now days though, I only do it for the meat and to teach the heritage to my son, because I'm not willing to put forth the effort anymore.

I think most hunters find a little remorse in what they do, that's why ol' wcoyote had to lie.

No remorse here. I've killed a many a animal in my lifetime and have no remorse for any of them that were killed with intent. The only ones that I have remorse for are the ones that found their way in front my vechicle or something similiar. Call me cruel, I guess.

 

[Kane(adian)]

I think that the cause of human overpopulation has been grossly overlooked here. For the most part humans have no natural predators, only themselves. If an animal breaks a leg in the wild, 999 times out of 1000, it is dinner for one carnivore or another, humans however, go to the hospital, get a cast, and hobble around for 6 weeks. Now, when someone is hiking along a path, and happens to be attacked by a bear/cougar/whatever, we do not just say, "I guess that he/she was in the wrong place at the wrong time" and go on with our lives, no, instead, we decide that this animal must have had something wrong with it, so we hunt it down, and kill it for no apparent reason, other than to see if something was wrong with it.

Back to the overfishing and what not that I think this thread was started over. The problem can not be eradicated as easily as it looks. Most of us look at this and say, "Well if we stopped eating fish for awhile, things would just rejuvinate themselves." Unfortunately, this is not the case. When the demand is no longer there, the price drops, forcing some people out of commercial fishing, and the rest to grow larger, so are we really taking less fish, NO, we are essentially doing the same thing as a large chain store, we make a little bit on each product, but we sell LOTS of product, vs. we make some off of everything we sell, but we don't sell that much. So, the majority of people stop eating fish, well, there are a lot of hungry people out there, who do not have a lot of money, who will be willing to pay a low price for a piece of fish.

Now, really the problem that needs to be addressed, is overpopulation, which results in poverty. Overpopulation forces animals out, so that humans can move in. Rather than trying to treat the problem, we need to find a solution to it. With the advent of better medical treatment, people are living longer, and in one way or another we letting "the needs of the few, outweigh the needs of the many" Everything else on the planet has or does live in some sense of harmony, except where humans have intervened.

I don't think that vegetarianism is the answer, as if only you are to look at the teeth in your very mouth, it will tell you that you are omniverous, meaning that you eat meat, and veggies. I think that is one of the important things to maintaining health. I am not one of those PETA or Greenpeace people, but I do know that the answer of what the future holds is only as far away as a standard population graph. Any species will have a slow start, slowly gaining population. Then there will be an exponential growth period, where the population will rise dramatically. Next, the population makes a nice round top, while the habitat is exhausted to the max, and then the population falls like a stone. Without keeping ourselves in check, this is where we are headed, and it is only a matter of how many species we take with us.

What is it that causes the dramatic fall in population you ask? Numerous things, lack of food, disease (hmm, don't we have a few diseases that seem to be spreading quickly) normally do it. The problem is much more deeply rooted than we may think. Out in the wild, humans are left to rely on their brains, which is what sets us apart from animals, is the development of the cerebrum, or the part of the brain that does the thinking. So, whether we spear something, or shoot something, or dig a hole that it falls into, that is our natural method of catching meat, unless we resort to scavenging. We do not have big teeth or claws in a literal sense, but everywhere you look, you can see our clawmarks in every tree, or in every ocean.

 

[sea nmf]

As for shrimp, the research I found said that for every pound of shrimp, 10 pounds of byproduct (other living creatures) are destroyed.

Hunting: We have to out-think a deer? Hmmmm. Didn't know they were thinkers . . . . .