Never mind but I don't get the surly attitude.
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Why is Reef Photo so much more?
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jd950
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I don't speak for Reef, this is just my thought: I suspect Reef and other photo retailers who maintain a brick and mortar store and/or operate what they consider a full service business feel it is unreasonable to ask them to compete on price with online businesses who are often overseas and may therefore be able to obtain Asian-made products at lower cost and/or may offer no services beyond some sales advice and don't maintain a full service shop.
I assume I can call Backscatter, Reef, Optical Ocean Sales and some others and ask questions, get advice or get help setting up or operating a product I purchased from them. Therefore I don't ask them to match the price from someone from whom I could not obtain such service. I also expect that they will compete for my business on this service issue, since they don't compete on price. If I call and they don't have time to help me pick the strobe I need or answer my question about a housing (or whatever) then the next full-service business who will take the time to help me will get my business.
If I am not mistaken, most of the U.S. retailers price Inon products the same and it is only from overseas that you can get a better price. I think the same is true on many other products, including non OEM housings, arms, etc.
Whether paying more for the service component is right or wrong is a personal point of view for each of us. I generally oppose price fixing and the "support your local dive shop no matter what" mentality but on the other hand, photo gear is much more complex than fins and wetsuits and I often have questions and need input on photo gear, so I have generally paid the higher price and in turn expect greater service. If I had a good local dive photo store, I would likely patronize them and pay the higher prices so I could play with equipment, and get help when needed.
Reef should not have been rude, but I think they even have a "price matching" article on their web page and I think this might be a sensitive subject for them. Of course, I don't know if hey were rude or not.
Again, I am not saying it is right or wrong to purchase at the best price or pay more for "value-added" services; that is for each consumer to decide. I have heard favorable comments about the service provided by at least one overseas merchant.
Perhaps Reef will correct my comments or supplement them, but I think this is the reason Reef may not price match.
I assume I can call Backscatter, Reef, Optical Ocean Sales and some others and ask questions, get advice or get help setting up or operating a product I purchased from them. Therefore I don't ask them to match the price from someone from whom I could not obtain such service. I also expect that they will compete for my business on this service issue, since they don't compete on price. If I call and they don't have time to help me pick the strobe I need or answer my question about a housing (or whatever) then the next full-service business who will take the time to help me will get my business.
If I am not mistaken, most of the U.S. retailers price Inon products the same and it is only from overseas that you can get a better price. I think the same is true on many other products, including non OEM housings, arms, etc.
Whether paying more for the service component is right or wrong is a personal point of view for each of us. I generally oppose price fixing and the "support your local dive shop no matter what" mentality but on the other hand, photo gear is much more complex than fins and wetsuits and I often have questions and need input on photo gear, so I have generally paid the higher price and in turn expect greater service. If I had a good local dive photo store, I would likely patronize them and pay the higher prices so I could play with equipment, and get help when needed.
Reef should not have been rude, but I think they even have a "price matching" article on their web page and I think this might be a sensitive subject for them. Of course, I don't know if hey were rude or not.
Again, I am not saying it is right or wrong to purchase at the best price or pay more for "value-added" services; that is for each consumer to decide. I have heard favorable comments about the service provided by at least one overseas merchant.
Perhaps Reef will correct my comments or supplement them, but I think this is the reason Reef may not price match.
OP
Well, that is a good enough explanation, too bad it isn't the one I got. Perhaps they were just having a bad morning. I am willing to pay more as long as I feel like I am getting something in return that justifies it. I would like to purchase it from them and would pay their listed price gladly had there been a friendlier conversation.
The phone call did not leave me feeling good about having done business with them in the past nor offer any explanation and now I have to reevaluate that. Probably my fault as always. I guess when I am about to spend close to the better part of 1,000 dollars not to mention my previous purchases, I like to feel like my business is appreciated, I did not get that, that is my opinion, and maybe it was indeed my fault.
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The phone call did not leave me feeling good about having done business with them in the past nor offer any explanation and now I have to reevaluate that. Probably my fault as always. I guess when I am about to spend close to the better part of 1,000 dollars not to mention my previous purchases, I like to feel like my business is appreciated, I did not get that, that is my opinion, and maybe it was indeed my fault.
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jd950
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I have no clue whose fault it was or if there is any, I hope I did not sound like I was blaming or justifying; just trying to answer the question....If they gave some other reason or explanation for the pricing issue, then my answer must be wrong....I have done business with Reef but never been there or met anyone from there and can't speak for them.
Hmmm, I am just placed an order nearer $2k for the damn FIX housing for the G11 etc. etc. I ordered twice from them in the past with no issues. I have not compared with overseas offerings but checked against similar businesses as H2O and Backscatter. I figured I'd stay the course since they know exactly the equipment I've gotten from them. It appears you have edited your original report so don't know if you had any particulars regarding your conversation. Ryan has always been helpful.
OP
jbb, like I said, I think it was just a bad morning and some miss communication.
I never said anything about overseas even in the rant part I edited out!
You know, maybe, it is a cultural thing, I am from the Midwest/Deep South, I think sometimes I get out of kilter when I feel people are being dismissive or inattentive and perhaps that is not intentional on the part of coasters. As I said, it was probably my fault.
Their prices are reasonable per post number 2 had they offered that as an explanation none of this would be here.
I deal with people as my job all the time who have bought very expensive things. I have to essentially do anything it takes to make them happy. I guess that type of treatment and approach is not universal in other industries. We are supposed to "delight" our customers, well, I am not delighted, if you can tell.
N
I never said anything about overseas even in the rant part I edited out!
You know, maybe, it is a cultural thing, I am from the Midwest/Deep South, I think sometimes I get out of kilter when I feel people are being dismissive or inattentive and perhaps that is not intentional on the part of coasters. As I said, it was probably my fault.
Their prices are reasonable per post number 2 had they offered that as an explanation none of this would be here.
I deal with people as my job all the time who have bought very expensive things. I have to essentially do anything it takes to make them happy. I guess that type of treatment and approach is not universal in other industries. We are supposed to "delight" our customers, well, I am not delighted, if you can tell.N
Pricing is without a sensitive topic. As a competitor to Reef, Backscatter and all of these other international online stores, we are often faced with the same situations.
You are correct in that the large majority of all products sold by us US Underwater Imaging retailers are at the same pricing. Pricing, both retail and MAP is set by the manufacturers. We are held strictly to those policies or we risk losing our dealerships...and believe me the underwater manufacturers will do this. There have been 2 or 3 manufacturers to revoke dealership from BH Photo in the last year due to discounting.
One major problem we face here in the US is competition directly from other countries. Online companies such as DiverVision are not only dealers, but are distributors for their countries and do not pay the same for import duties and fees, as such are selling much cheaper. We work on SMALL profit margins when compared to most retail businesses. These out of country stores often times sell products for Significantly less than what our dealer cost is! Especially on products from Japan such as Sea & Sea, Inon and Fisheye. You will rarely ever see an international dealer lower priced on Gates, Light and Motion or Ikelite products.
There is a definite advantage of purchasing from a US dealer. Support, service, lack of communication barrier, we are on similar time schedules, and more importantly, we are very active in the forums, and we are always looking for new ways to add benefit for our customers support us with their purchases. That is one of the reasons we at H2O Photo Pros and Marine Visions are putting time into getting assembly videos and sample photos and videos out on the web, to make both the ease of the purchasing decision, and the ease of using products easier.
On another note, I am VERY surprised to hear that you felt Reef was rude over the phone. I will say of all our competitors, I always hear very high regards to their kindness and support. I also work with them almost daily as they are the US distributor for many lines, and Ive never had such an issue with any of them. Thats not to say someone isnt having a bad day. We all have bad days on occasion, and pricing issues are big problems we face daily, and in all honesty and fairness to us dealers, many manufacturers are absolutely useless in assisting with pricing issues.
You are correct in that the large majority of all products sold by us US Underwater Imaging retailers are at the same pricing. Pricing, both retail and MAP is set by the manufacturers. We are held strictly to those policies or we risk losing our dealerships...and believe me the underwater manufacturers will do this. There have been 2 or 3 manufacturers to revoke dealership from BH Photo in the last year due to discounting.
One major problem we face here in the US is competition directly from other countries. Online companies such as DiverVision are not only dealers, but are distributors for their countries and do not pay the same for import duties and fees, as such are selling much cheaper. We work on SMALL profit margins when compared to most retail businesses. These out of country stores often times sell products for Significantly less than what our dealer cost is! Especially on products from Japan such as Sea & Sea, Inon and Fisheye. You will rarely ever see an international dealer lower priced on Gates, Light and Motion or Ikelite products.
There is a definite advantage of purchasing from a US dealer. Support, service, lack of communication barrier, we are on similar time schedules, and more importantly, we are very active in the forums, and we are always looking for new ways to add benefit for our customers support us with their purchases. That is one of the reasons we at H2O Photo Pros and Marine Visions are putting time into getting assembly videos and sample photos and videos out on the web, to make both the ease of the purchasing decision, and the ease of using products easier.
On another note, I am VERY surprised to hear that you felt Reef was rude over the phone. I will say of all our competitors, I always hear very high regards to their kindness and support. I also work with them almost daily as they are the US distributor for many lines, and Ive never had such an issue with any of them. Thats not to say someone isnt having a bad day. We all have bad days on occasion, and pricing issues are big problems we face daily, and in all honesty and fairness to us dealers, many manufacturers are absolutely useless in assisting with pricing issues.
I have purchased from Reef with good results. I made a point of going by their booth at Beneath the Sea to tell them how much I appreciated getting someone who knew what they were talking about when I called. Expertise from a sales staff can save you from wasting money on gear that will not do what you want it to do.
Ryan
Contributor
First of all, I'm sorry you felt that someone was rude to you. This is a sensitive subject, and I feel bad for our guys getting beat up on the phone constantly, but there is a fine line and they should never be surly.
When I look at competitor's websites I often wonder if they know what they actually pay for some of these imported items. In the case I believe you are referring too, we've priced a part based upon our landed cost and required margin to stay in business. Hopefully our domestic competitors will notice this and adjust their outdated web prices. I'm sure we've lost business over some Inon prices, but I expect it will even out over time.
When I look at competitor's websites I often wonder if they know what they actually pay for some of these imported items. In the case I believe you are referring too, we've priced a part based upon our landed cost and required margin to stay in business. Hopefully our domestic competitors will notice this and adjust their outdated web prices. I'm sure we've lost business over some Inon prices, but I expect it will even out over time.
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