Why count dives, why not BT and Conditions?

[RonFrank]

Seems to me that everyone counts dives. I was on a thread today, and everyone had an opinion on how many dives one needs before doing X.

I starting thinking, and realized that number of dives is by in large worthless especially for new divers. Why, well they get to dive number 6, and most will have less than 90 minutes of BT. Heck many experienced divers have one dive over that!

Many will have dove on shallow friendly reefs, with no current, and great vis, and they still can not get 45 minutes out of a tank!

It seems that there should be a better way to quantify a divers experience level than just how many dives. For example, IMO someone with 50 dives that has done low vis cold lakes, deep ocean wrecks in current, drift dives, and the always fun shallow reefs is going to be a HECK of a lot more experienced than someone who has done more diving in easy conditions.

Someone who get's 45~60 minuites of BT is going to be a better diver than someone with the same amount of dives who averages 30 minutes a dive.

Any thoughts? I'm sure THIS post is not going to change the world, but thought I'd throw it out.

 

[amascuba]

I keep track of hours of bottom time and types of dives like fresh water, salt water, drysuit, nitrox, double tanks, etc. Ok Ok Ok .. my dive software keeps up with it.

IMHO keeping track of hours spent underwater is a better way than number of dives.

 

[jbd]

I guess its kind of flying a jet liner-- the hours in the air(mostly auto-pilot) don't really matter as much as how many times you got the aircraft up and down safely.

In talking with a potential dive buddy, one should ask about overall experience and conditions as well as how many. One of the most useless bits of info is, "How many years have you been diving? I've been certified for 22 years" That should get an automatic follow up question of how many dives have you done in those 22 years?

 

[SparticleBrane]

By 6 dives I had 4 hours 20 minutes of bottom time.
Like amascuba, my dive log keeps up with it automatically.

 

[rhyz]

I keep track of everything to on all my dives, software helps alot but I add in alot in my notes. But also about half my dives are over 65fsw, 1-10' vis and below 55 degrees. With only 19 logged, with a person doing warm shallower dives with moderate to higher vis his TBT will be alot higher within the same amount of dives. (I am correct in this, I think) Does that make him a more knowledgable, competent diver than myself?

 

[Michael Schlink]

Good point Ron, another point would be that some divers improve at faster pace, so time doesn't really mean that much either. I've posted in the past that a diver that has 50 dives in FW lakes, etc. is no more qualified to jump a wall drift dive than someone with 25 dives on shallow reefs.
Go another step-just about every diver signs a statement that they WON"T dive beyond their training and experience, now who follows that one?
Where there are many that believe that "C" cards are worthless and many divers are out there just collecting cards, I think we need either a better logbook system or certification process that truly proves a divers experience and abilities.

 

[TheRedHead]

But if you are certified and an experienced diver, with enough certs to get you on the boats to the sites you want to dive, why does it matter?

 

[Halthron]

IMO, people should keep track of what they feel like. Neither total dives nor total bottom time will make someone a better diver but each has their place. The number of dives / dive time does not confer respect (contrary to what some people with over 1000 dives think), I respect someone more for skills displayed more than having a faded BC.

 

[BSea]

One of the most useless bits of info is, "How many years have you been diving? I've been certified for 22 years" That should get an automatic follow up question of how many dives have you done in those 22 years?

Maybe a better question is how many dives have you done in the last 2 or 3 years. Forget about how many years. Many people could have hundreds of dives from 20 years ago, but only a few in the last couple of years. There is a reason (other than monetary) why dive shops offer refresher courses, and why dive operators want to know that you have some current diving experience. Personally, I needed several dives to feel really comfortable again after several years of almost no diving.

 

[Jon C]

Here is the "Jon Dive Formula":

• Single tank dive over 40 minutes (cold water/50 feet max) = 1 dive unit
• Getting tumbled in surf on entry = -.3 du's
• Getting tumbled on exit = -.5 du's (should have learned on entry!)
• Seeing something cool = + .6 du's (good size ray, shark, girl in bikini, etc.)
• Seeing Great White = 3 X du's
• Seeing Great White and soiling wetsuit...doesn't matter...3 X du's
• Loosing gear in surf = -.2 du's
• FINDING gear in surf = +.3 du's
• Running into reef = -.2 du's PER OCCURANCE
• Having large knife strapped to leg = -.2 du's
• Having 2 large knives strapped to each leg = -6 du's and mandatory destruction of cert card.
• Believing a knife can stop a Great White = -.7 du's

As you can see, the tally will indicate if you had a complete dive or not... It is entirely possible to go diving and have fewer dives at the end of the day...especially you guys with the stereo knife set up! And that's the way it should be!!!

There are probably other considerations I have left off...any suggestions?

Jon