Whoa! This shouldn't be happening

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Diver0001

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I thought I'd pass this one along for speculation.

I have a regular buddy that I met a couple of years ago. Let's call him Bob. Bob and I have made a whole gob of dives together (a couple of hundred or thereabouts) including some pretty interesting ones and until a couple of weeks ago I've never seen the slightest hint of stress on him. In fact until a couple of weeks ago I thought you'd have to harpoon him to really get a rise out of him under water.....

So a couple of weeks ago Bob went North Sea wreck diving for the first time. He came with me and with another friend of mine who he knew.

The boat sailed at midnight or so and we (I should say *I*) went to sleep in our cabin. The next morning we got the wakeup call at about 6am and Bob told me that he had slept badly and was feeling a little sea sick but not enough that he was puking from it.

We discussed it briefly and Bob said that he was good to dive and thought that once he was in the water he'd feel better.

So fast forward and we're on the shotline. Surface currents are strong and the best way to make the decent is to pull yourself hand-over-hand along the shotline on the way down.

We assembled at 5 metres, everyone OK and ready and off we go. I"m in front and I check at 10 and at 20 metres if everyone is OK and they give OK back.

So we arrive a the bottom around 30 metres and suddenly Bob does something entirely uncharacteristic. He lets go of the shotline, sinks to the bottom and sits on his knees breathing heavily. I give buddy #2 --still on the shotline-- a forceful STOP! and rush over to Bob. I give him a "slow/calm" sign and he looks at me or through me and then slaps my hands away and takes off up the shotline again in a big hurry ....... Blooody hell! :eek:

I chase after him signing to buddy #2 to follow as we pass by and Bob doesn't start to slow down until he gets to about 15 metres. At about that time I catch up to him but didn't try pulling him to slow down because I could see he was breathing and I was worried if I grabbed him that he'd go into full panic mode and hurt one or both of us..... At 10 metres he slows down some more and flashes me OK and at 5 metres he stops.

I - am - totally - floored. This was the *last* thing I expected Bob to do. Ever!

After the fact we talked about it and he couldn't put his finger on one thing and say "that was it". Obviously he had slept badly and was feeling a little sea sick. He was also pretty pumped about the dive--being his first time on the North Sea--and the exertion of pulling himself down along the shotline during the descent was something he wasn't accustomed to. He said he was feeling OK until the 20 metre mark and then just lost it and started hyperventilating just before we got to the bottom. He remembered me giving him the "slow/calm" sign but he was already trying to get his breathing under control and just couldn't. When he realised he was losing the battle he made a 1/2 conscious decision to bail and once the decision was made instinct took over and it took most of the ascent for him to collect himself again.

Go figure

For me it reinforces something you hear all the time. Every dive is different and complacency can bite you. I assumed that since Bob and I had done many dives in similar conditions that he would be his usual self. I probably descended too fast for him that day and it started the stress chain induced by heavy breathing. We agreed the next time that Bob would lead the descent and that he would go at his own tempo. He'll also bring ear-plugs next time for better sleeping on the boat, and take motion sickness drugs before the fact, and try to get rested up better in the days before the event.

OK, have at it.

R..
 
Too close for comfort, eh? Glad y'all survived okay. You did your part well. :medal:

Thanks for sharing.
 
Bet that gave ya a bit of a fright! Like you say- just goes to show every dive is different! Well done though, seems like ya all handled it well!!

This kinda thing can happen to any of us- any of us could be *Bob* and discover at some stage during a dive that we just dont feel happy about something. We just gotta hope that we have enough training and experience to deal with a situation in a safe way!

SF
 
Anyone, even you, can experience a panic attack for whatever reason. It's not pretty and it's especially not fun. Especially if it is you that is having the panic attack. The only thing you can do if you experience one is to understand what is happening, calm down, breath slowly, try to solve whatever problem it is, and if you call the dive, make yourself go slow. If you don't you can get hurt. Sounds like you did the best you could. I hope your friend doesn't have any future problems. He was probably Narc'd and it affected his judgement more than normal. He needs to get back in there and this time take it slowly and stop a bit a few times on the way down to make sure he is comfortable with the dive. If he does this, the likelyhood of a future panic attack is less. I am sure he is thinking about what happened and worrying. The sooner he gets through a similar dive without problems, the better.
 
I'd suspect a "touch" of narcosis. Tired, seasick would make him much more susceptible. Glad no one was injured.
 
I hope it wasn't a case of him knowing that he shouldn't have made the dive in the first place, but for whatever reason didn't want to call it (not wanting to look bad in front of everyone, etc.). Did you guys discuss that, and maybe talk about whether you need to make an agreement that next time either of you is questionable like that (no sleep and seasick), you'd both agree to call the dive, no questions and no repercussions? Maybe I'm way off base (I'm a new diver), but I'm trying to teach myself that, on a scale of 1-10, the importance of making any particular dive is about 0. Or less.
 
I agree with previous comments about narcosis being as factor, at 30m its highly probable he had at least a small amount of narcosis. I find that if I have a particularly rough night before a dive -from alchohol or lack of sleep or both, I get narced so much easier. Also the pressure could have meant that there was slightly more breathing resistance from his reg.

The hyperventailating issue has a number of factors that could have contributed to it.Our urge to breathe comes from the build-up of CO2 in the bloodstream, the brian (hypothalimus I think) detects the P-CO2 and when it reaches a theshhold, it stimulates a breath. Baring this in mind I have a number of things to mention

As you are decending you have a tendancy to breath out more, or for a longer amount of time to get urself down (particularly in this case as it was a tough decent). As you are breathing out for longer the urge to breathe is greater than on a normal breath and you quickly suck in air after the outward breath. If you are deep this can give u a quick hit of N2 and addd to narcosis. This also means you suddenly have full lungs, more bouyancy and so breathe out deeper and longer again to get down. The cycle can repeat itself with the diver getting more and more narced and out of breath.

The natural urge when out of breath is to breathe in and out heavily very quickly, this leaves little time for the gases to exchange/diffuse in the lungs. O2 in, CO2 out. Leading to the out of breath feeling to continue even tho the person believes they are doing all they can do.

Also when breathing quickly there is a tendancy to only use the upper portions of the lungs, thus not using the full volume of the lungs and not exchanging enough gas. The diaphram (layer of muscle between lung cavity and abdominal area, dont know biological names sorry!) is supposed to move down when breathing in to draw air in and up to force air out on the outward breath. When breathing quickly into the upper portion of the lungs this cycle can be reversed some what with the diaphram moving upwards on the inward breath and down on the out. This can make it hard to get out of the cycle of breathing quick and shallow.

As the CO2 concentration in the blood builds up this can attribute to narcosis as CO2 has more narcotic potential than N2. With all this narcosis from N2 (and possibly CO2) it can be hard for a diver to consciously and intellectually analyse and adjust their breath control.

I was supervising an OW student this summer that was complaining of not getting enough air from his reg. We were talking thru his breathing technique via my slate to get him breathing comfortably. He was underweighted and kept having to breathe out to stay kneely on the bottom. I gave him some of my weights and got him weighted correctly but he was still out of breath so went thru all the possible things outlined above.

After writing THAT post Im quite out of breath and am just gonna rest on the shotline a bit.

Been diving with Bob since then Diver0001?
 
mccabejc:
....snip....

Did you guys discuss that, and maybe talk about whether you need to make an agreement that next time either of you is questionable like that (no sleep and seasick), you'd both agree to call the dive, no questions and no repercussions? ....snip....

Yes we discussed it before the dive. I specifically asked him if he wanted to call it and he said no. He's called dives before and I had no reason to believe that he was being macho about it. I've even seen him call a dive at 5 metres during the decent because it didn't "feel" right. We have a long standing agreement about "no questions asked" so I had no reason to expect that he would continue with the descent if he wasn't comfortable. Obviously he did and that's one of the odd things about this dive.

In addition, my friend has made hundreds of dives in similar or even more challenging conditions than this. In terms of cold, depth, current, viz and equipment it was routine. In fact it was warmer and clearer than we're used to having. Only the method of decent was new for him.

We went diving again asap after that. It was a shallow dive to 16 metres with a bottom time of 90 min. He was fine. I do agree that we need to get him back on the North Sea on short order too. He also wants that. Unfortunately I'm in the middle of a big delivery at my work and it's going to have to wait until some time in October.

R..
 
SquattingRadishDM:
I agree with previous comments about narcosis being as factor, at 30m its highly probable he had at least a small amount of narcosis. I find that if I have a particularly rough night before a dive -from alchohol or lack of sleep or both, I get narced so much easier. Also the pressure could have meant that there was slightly more breathing resistance from his reg.

The hyperventailating issue has a number of factors that could have contributed to it.Our urge to breathe comes from the build-up of CO2 in the bloodstream, the brian (hypothalimus I think) detects the P-CO2 and when it reaches a theshhold, it stimulates a breath. Baring this in mind I have a number of things to mention

As you are decending you have a tendancy to breath out more, or for a longer amount of time to get urself down (particularly in this case as it was a tough decent). As you are breathing out for longer the urge to breathe is greater than on a normal breath and you quickly suck in air after the outward breath. If you are deep this can give u a quick hit of N2 and addd to narcosis. This also means you suddenly have full lungs, more bouyancy and so breathe out deeper and longer again to get down. The cycle can repeat itself with the diver getting more and more narced and out of breath.

The natural urge when out of breath is to breathe in and out heavily very quickly, this leaves little time for the gases to exchange/diffuse in the lungs. O2 in, CO2 out. Leading to the out of breath feeling to continue even tho the person believes they are doing all they can do.

Also when breathing quickly there is a tendancy to only use the upper portions of the lungs, thus not using the full volume of the lungs and not exchanging enough gas. The diaphram (layer of muscle between lung cavity and abdominal area, dont know biological names sorry!) is supposed to move down when breathing in to draw air in and up to force air out on the outward breath. When breathing quickly into the upper portion of the lungs this cycle can be reversed some what with the diaphram moving upwards on the inward breath and down on the out. This can make it hard to get out of the cycle of breathing quick and shallow.

As the CO2 concentration in the blood builds up this can attribute to narcosis as CO2 has more narcotic potential than N2. With all this narcosis from N2 (and possibly CO2) it can be hard for a diver to consciously and intellectually analyse and adjust their breath control.

I was supervising an OW student this summer that was complaining of not getting enough air from his reg. We were talking thru his breathing technique via my slate to get him breathing comfortably. He was underweighted and kept having to breathe out to stay kneely on the bottom. I gave him some of my weights and got him weighted correctly but he was still out of breath so went thru all the possible things outlined above.

After writing THAT post Im quite out of breath and am just gonna rest on the shotline a bit.

Been diving with Bob since then Diver0001?

Good post! I think I'll print this and show it to my buddy. I haven't discussed his breathing with him but your post triggered me on something. Typically his air consumption is about 20% better than mine and mine is already fairly low. It's quite possible that he was doing exactly what you describe.

R..
 
I will give my 2 cents and they come from my own experance.when I do a new dive site or a new type of dive,I get very nervous .to combat that feeling I find I have to go realy slow and get used to the conditions or the dive site.I now have a policy that I explain to dive buddy's ,that I will be super slow and enjoy the dive .I belive your bob was nervous and the speed (wich may have not seemed fast at all)added to his disconfort.for me some times I have to remeber to the 3 rules "stop" think" act",when you love diveing one tends to get alittle complacent and for get the rules .glad every one is okay thanks for shareing another dive lesson learned
 

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