Who to do Cavern With in Tuluum?

[Soggy]

He is on scubaboard also, diablodiver is his name on the board.

Actually, his name is Pez De Diablo on here.

 

[CameronMartz]

Is it just that ZG won't do a cavern certification course, or is it that they don't want to do any instruction less than GUE Cave 1? If it's just the former, don't worry about getting a cavern card, as there really isn't much to do with that certification, anyway. In fact, I don't know of anyone who has spent any time as a "Cavern Diver" without going right into "Intro to Cave," the next level of cert in other agencies, or just giving up on the idea of cave diving altogether.

See if you can hire them for private instruction outside of a mandated curriculum for a certain number of days. Dive and learn as much as you want in the time you have, then practice your skills in OW until you feel ready for Cave 1.

Cameron

 

[Karen Cleveland]

Actually, his name is Pez De Diablo on here.

Whoops, don't tell Dennis I botched his board name

Karen

 

[nadwidny]

I know that Fernando prefers to do Cavern in doubles for anyone that is serious about moving on to Intro and Full... I believe Bil does, as well... though I'm not sure about that.

I'm not sure how DIR Bil is but I give him thumbs up based on his experience and what I saw at Taj Mahal last December. He had a student show up for a class and the guy pulled split fins out of his divebag; Bil thumbed the class right then and there.

 

[Peter Guy]

Thanks for the responses.

A bit more background:

In March we went to Coz and did a couple of days of Cenote tours with Danny R from Zero G. We would both love to take Cavern from him but it seems like he/they have decided just to do GUE Cave even though they still appear to be NACD also.

Why Cavern? A couple of reasons:

1. We do like to take lessons in smallish bites;

2. I don't know that I'll have a Tech pass from Fundies (hey, I don't know if I'll have my Rec pass!);

3. We are planning to go to Orlando in Dec and if we have a Cavern cert, we can do Cave tours;

4. We're hoping to be in Tuluum with some friends who will NOT be doing a class and we'd like to see them; and

5. Next spring, when Lynne takes Cave, I'm thinking I might be OK with Intro -- especially if a certain SoCal diver can talk her family into coming down and spending a week in Cancun/Tuluum and do Intro with me.

Why the DIR forum -- because we want the Cavern class to be DIR -- and for me at least, DIR instruction means more than just GUE instruction.

 

[ae3753]

Both of them are pretty DIR even if they wont admit it.

The difference seems to be in the small things...what hand is their light in, where are their arrows clipped off, spring heels? jet fins or paddle fins? if you have taken any GUE classes you will quickly pick out the differences.

Upon reading this, Elissa said, "Yeah, this confirms I'm not DIR." Sorry, KMD. Hope you will still dive with us

Peter and Lynne, based on our meeting in Monterey and all the discussions on various boards, I can whole heartedly recommend Steve Bogaerts (http://www.aztecdiving.com/).

He's meticulous, extremely safety conscious, dedicated to teaching, thoughtful, and forces you to actively participate in all aspects of the class. To give you an example, on the first day of cavern (as well as Intro-to-Cave), Steve asked us to walk through our gear in great detail - every aspect of our hogarthian rig and why each component was selected. Obviously, anyone familiar with the rig can just look at it and know how it's set up. But Steve wanted us to physically walk him through each piece, demonstrating thoughtfulness in our selection choices.

If you take Cavern with Steve and then GUE Cave 1, there won't be any "relearning." The emphasis in safety, team, dive planning, and personal skills are the same.

I'll PM you my cell phone if you want to talk at length. Elissa and I are more than happy to talk to both of you about our experiences.

In fact, I don't know of anyone who has spent any time as a "Cavern Diver" without going right into "Intro to Cave," the next level of cert in other agencies, or just giving up on the idea of cave diving altogether.

Elissa and I planned on doing at least one trip at dive cavern limits before venturing forth. It just so happened that Elissa had more vacation days so she went down to Mexico and dove 7 days with Dennis Weeks. About day 5, Elissa called home and said that we'll be taking Intro-to-Cave. Being the dutiful husband, I replied, "As you wish."

 

[KazInAz]

If you take Cavern and then GUE Cave 1, there won't be any "relearning." The emphasis in safety, team, dive planning, and personal skills are the same.

I dont agree...there will be some re-learning, not knocking anyones training either or agencies as I have done both. I did Cavern with Danny (ZG) then got a provisional Cave 1 with Danny, then did Full Cave with NACD. Yes all agencies focused on "safety, team, dive planning, and personal skills" but there was a ton of differences between the agencies. Procedures for handling various situations were different as well has small things that I indicated earlier like equipment configuration. GUE divers keep backup lights in the same place, the other divers may not. For instance we dove with one guy in Tulum (not DIR) that kept his backups in his pockets (he was a cave instructor).

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Why the DIR forum -- because we want the Cavern class to be DIR -- and for me at least, DIR instruction means more than just GUE instruction.

Peter, what do you mean?

Procedures for handling various situations were different

Kaz, can you give us some examples?

 

[ae3753]

Procedures for handling various situations were different as well has small things that I indicated earlier like equipment configuration. GUE divers keep backup lights in the same place, the other divers may not. For instance we dove with one guy in Tulum (not DIR) that kept his backups in his pockets (he was a cave instructor).

Agree that there are difference in agencies and certain protocals. However, the OP was asking about a specific instructor when compared to GUE, and not an agency when compared to GUE. And I am speaking in this context.

There will be minor variances, but the major differences don't come until complex navigation and arrow/cookie usage. While we talked to Steve about this in Cavern, it wasn't a "learned" skill until Intro-to-Cave. And I'm confident that any differences will be minor adjustments for Peter and Lynne vs. re-learning.

Regarding equipment, we had back-ups on the harness, lightheads on our left hands, etc and there was no requirement or request to change our set-up. Steve asked why we did it, explained the pros/cons of various options, and made sure that as a team we knew where everyone's equipment was.

For dive planning, we used SADDDDD (which was the same for GUE at the time). For dissimilar cylinder calculations, Steve discussed TF calculations when we said that's what we used.

KazInAz, since you've taken Cavern/Cave1 with Danny and then Full Cave with an NACD instructor, I'm curious on what procedural differences you saw at Cavern skills/limits.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

There will be minor variances, but the major differences don't come until complex navigation and arrow/cookie usage.

Why do you say that? Your profile list only Intro (no complex nav.) and no GUE training. I'M not arguing with you I am just wondering how you "know" that to be true.

I'd still really like to hear from the folks that have both GUE and NACD training... especially those that had a "DIR-oriented" NACD instructor.