Who certifies these people?

[JB]

I have just returned from a diving holiday, during which my kids did the Adventure diver course. Events got me thinking about whether it is possible to fail the OWD course? I know of people who have not completed the course, but it is usually a voluntary thing, can't equalise, claustrophobic or some other personal reason that makes the student withdraw, but do instructors ever fail people, or is it a case of if I don't certify this person someone else will and I'll loose clientele?
There was this one diver who just could not dive, always in a vertical orientation going up or down arms and legs flailing, almost popping to the surface every few minutes. It kind of spoilt the dives for everyone else...and annoyed me particularly because the instructor, who was doing the night dive for my kids' course, had to physically hold onto this person and shove her at things so that he/she could see them, and control random ascents and descents. (Tandem Diving Anyone?) Now there was another DM on the dive, and I was quite comfortable looking out for the kids, in fact I thought it was quite a compliment that he felt secure enough in their competence to leave them, on their first night dive, in order to attend to this person
I must say that if I was him, I would have taken the person to the surface and onto the boat and in the interests of the person's safety recommended that diving was not something she/he should pursue without a redo course. I wonder if the potential tip is the incentive to baby incompetent/dangerous divers at holiday destinations?
I suppose the most frightening thing is the lack of self awareness that this person displayed. Nickname for the trip "cork". On the positive side, it was very instructive for the kids to see exactly how not to dive, and compare that with the DMs who just had perfect trim and buoyancy, I just worry about this person on the next dive, and whose job it is to correct the situation, before there is a tragedy?

 

[Crowley]

It's sad, but it happens. Over the years I've encountered a fair number of "corks" or otherwise poor divers.

There is, unfortunately, a murky side to the dive industry where dive centres put profit above anything else, and therefore divers receive poor training as a result. It's not all centres, and it's not all divers, and it has to be said that some divers receive excellent training but just don't put it to use afterwards! People get certified in this environment because the Instructor is under a lot of pressure (no pun) to do so - and it is fair to say that there are some very poor instructors out there. None of these things are particularly unique to the dive industry, they are problems faced in all professions but actually knowing you have a poor instructor is not always easy, if you have no prior knowledge of diving.

What happens after that? Speaking as a dive professional I think we as instructors and divemasters have an obligation both to the diver and to those who are being inconvenienced by that person to try to rectify that situation. It's not always possible to hoik them out of the water mid-dive but a thorough de-briefing can help, and then recommendation for further training if necessary. Very often it's a simple matter of removing a bunch of extraneous weights - which sounds very much like the diver encountered by JB -but often I have had to provide remedial instruction on buoyancy control and equipment usage, and I have also flat out told people that they need a refresher before they can carry on diving.

At the centre I worked for in Egpyt we would try to anticipate problems before the divers got into deep water - through check dives or mandatory refreshers for people who may have very little experience and/or had been out of the water for a long time, and most people in that situation accepted our direction.

I know that posts of this sort often lead to agency-bashing flame wars so I'd like to put my moderator hat on and nip that in the bud before it starts - the simple fact of the matter is that it happens, and dive professionals and experienced amateurs can help out by trying to fix the problem so it doesn't spiral out of control.

Cheers

C.

 

[JB]

Thanks for a considered response. I suppose you answered my main question as to who is responsible and what should be done. I remember being incensed at having to do a "check out dive" in Kuredu, having just spent a week diving Alimatha.. I was young then. I now understand the need and the rationale for such, and will happily be part of this next time round.

 

[Imbodie]

I know of students who could NOT do the skills and did not finish their OW course. I have personally had students who did AWESOME during their course and met all the requirements and gotten their OW cards... then not dive for 6 months and were HORRIBLE in the water when I went on a fun dive with them. If a person gets certified and then only dives on vacations once a year they are not going to have optimum skills...

 

[Belzelbub]

Let's not forget that it is the students who are ultimately responsible for their training. Not to say that there aren't bad instructors, just that the diver needs to be the one who decides that they are ready to dive without an instructor, or they are not and need further instruction. As long as you are paying attention, you can't get through the required training books without coming to the realization that diving could result in death if the diver does not take the necessary precautions. So, it's up to the diver to recognize that they require more training.

My first OW class is a good example of a bad instructor. I did fine on the written portion, but I was not really comfortable with the skills, and I don't believe there is any way that the instructor could have evaluated my skills in the water portions of the course. This course had two dives scheduled. One in saltwater, and one at one of the Florida springs. Due to a scheduling conflict, I couldn't make the spring dive. So, my open water dives consisted of a single dive to a max depth of 10 feet in the murky water of Tampa Bay. Visibility was 4' maximum. There was no way that I should have been certified based on that course. However, I recognized that I needed more training, so I didn't dive until I got that additional training.

 

[mikeycanuk]

During our AOW course me and my 12yr old son got teamed up with our favorite instructor and a DM "in-training". Later I understood he was there was help the instructor and get his hours in, things did NOT turn out that way.

From another thread the DM to be was "that guy". Showed up late, was loud and told everyone he was an air hog. On the crowded boat he proceeded to continually purge my octo as I was next to him. I quickly told him to STOP. OK we all have the same gear, same shop. Then he tries to take one of my gloves, which incidentally looked nothing like his! So we decend down the line in 20'vis late into an overcast day. All 4 of us get to the wreck and proceed to it. I see the DM to be is way way overweighted, like the divers you see's on the PADI videos. Totally doggy paddle vertical position. Anyway we do our skills and a quick tour of the boat when I see the DM to be wide eyed and on the instructors octo! I think me and my son easily had 1400+psi. True to form the 2nd dive was a total 100% carbon copy of the first. At which point I talked to the instructor as this guy was simply dangerous to dive with. He also dragged his non diving girlfriend on the boat too.

The next day he was put behind and above the group doing the hours/work he was supposed to be doing for his DM. Not sure how he did there.

And on the drive home we saw his pimped out early 2000's Mercedes being driven by his gf while he was napping. What a tool.

This incident and another of a lazy "I'm an instructor (mentioned more than once on the boat)" instructor put me off ever going above MSD. This instructor was in GT and our boat was overcrowded that day and she was with her family. We dove first to get off the boat and sat on the sandy bottom for 15minutes as the DM had to kit up everyone, I guess it was too much work to kit herself and family.

 

[TMHeimer]

Somewhat similar to the recent "Divemaster Fitness" thread. I'm sure there are slack instructors out there regardless of agency that pass students who shouldn't be certified. As well, there are no doubt new divers who, as described, do fine in the course then don't dive for 6 months. Since OW course I have pretty much been continually diving. I wouldn't need much of a refresher if I stopped for a year at this point, but KNOW I surely would have if I was a new diver and stopped for a while. Gets back to personal responsibility. There are a lot of procedural (sp?) things that have to become ingrained when you are starting out.

 

[Steve_C]

From my observation the OW certification dives usually consists of follow the instructor around. For some there is very little instruction involved. This assumes you have viz more than 4 ft. Buoyancy and trim come later when you are not moving. I found the best thing was during my buoyancy class after OW where we had some large, say 4-5 ft diameter 4 ft long culvert pipes in the quarry. As the instructor explained the goal was not to swim through. The goal was to swim in slowly. Stop halfway and stay there for a while and then move slowly out. The other was when coming in the shallow road entry to stay off the bottom and stay below the surface while slowly moving in. Gets fun when water is less than 3 ft deep.

These observations come from observing several different agencies and in fresh and salt water and on shore or on the boat between dives.

Not saying that all are like this. But I have seen it often.

 

[Searcaigh]

We have one dive op locally whose instructors appear to teach their students to swim in a vertical position.

If we see one of their boats tied on to one of the wrecks we usually go elsewhere, totally clueless divers.

One instructor has been observed teaching mask removal to three students all of them including the instructor standing on the sandy bottom.