Who are all these faces?
- Thread starter Deefstes
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OP
Deefstes
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That's a bit of a shocker isn't it? I know some will disagree but this man, brilliant though his mind was, was to a large extent responsible for the deaths of a quarter million people and the destruction of two entire cities. I'm not commenting on the morals and merits of warfare but just pointing out that Oppenheimer's influence in modern history can not be denied or understated.
Deefstes:
Especially when you take into account that those quarter million lives saved the lives of well over 2 million, likely many times that. The US military was expecting to have over 1 million casualties with Japanese military and civilian casualties to be much higher in an invasion of Japan. While dropping those bombs was a horrible tragedy, not dropping them would have been much worse.
shakeybrainsurgeon
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To say Oppenheimer was responsible for these deaths is simplistic. He was asked by his government, in a time of war, to oversee a weapons program based on nuclear fission. At the time, as Einstein noted, there was a serious potential that the ****s were doing likewise (although, in hindsight, the German program was in disarray). Had he refused, on some moral grounds, and the US failed in this endeavor, what would we say if the ****s had succeeded and then nuked London? Or Moscow? Would he be "responsible" for the million deaths of that possible scenario?
Oppenheimer was no more responsible than Hans Bethe, chief theoretician, or Einstein, who prodded Roosevelt into action, or the high school students who were conscripted by Feynman to do calculations for the Manhattan project, or the people who piloted the Enola Gay. The Bomb was a team effort.
The people "responsible" for the deaths were the Japanese. If you don't want your cities vaporized, don't start a war with the United States. It's a pretty simple concept, actually.
(for those who can't read starred words, substitute "National Socialists"...the word police in action)
OP
Deefstes
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As I said, I wasn't commenting on the morals and merits of warfare. There are many different opinions on war and the various involved parties' ethics and guilt but that is outside the scope of my observation. I was merely pointing out that Robert Oppenheimer had an influence in modern history of staggering magnitude, yet his face seems to be relatively unfamiliar to most people.
For what it's worth, I also believe that the nuclear bombs brought to a swift end a phase of the war that could have dragged on for much longer and at a possible greater cost than the estimated quarter million lives in collateral damage. I'm a bit of a fence sitter when it comes to the ethics of that decision though. Also, I believe that the Japanese should have surrendered before the first nuke was dropped and most certainly should not have allowed a second one. I just pray to God that it will never ever be necessary again to drop a nuclear weapon on civilians in order to achieve military objectives.
To reiterate though, I was not taking a swing at Oppenheimer. In fact, I admire his brilliant mind. It's a pity that his legacy was the ruins of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (I know, also put very simplistic) when Einstein's legacy was the theory of general relativity and the law of the photoelectric effect. You're right though, saying that Robert Oppenheimer was responsible for the deaths of all those people is a bit like holding Henry Ford responsible for all the car accident fatalities.
For what it's worth, I also believe that the nuclear bombs brought to a swift end a phase of the war that could have dragged on for much longer and at a possible greater cost than the estimated quarter million lives in collateral damage. I'm a bit of a fence sitter when it comes to the ethics of that decision though. Also, I believe that the Japanese should have surrendered before the first nuke was dropped and most certainly should not have allowed a second one. I just pray to God that it will never ever be necessary again to drop a nuclear weapon on civilians in order to achieve military objectives.
To reiterate though, I was not taking a swing at Oppenheimer. In fact, I admire his brilliant mind. It's a pity that his legacy was the ruins of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (I know, also put very simplistic) when Einstein's legacy was the theory of general relativity and the law of the photoelectric effect. You're right though, saying that Robert Oppenheimer was responsible for the deaths of all those people is a bit like holding Henry Ford responsible for all the car accident fatalities.
mike_s
Contributor
that is a very true statement.....
it definately can't be understated.
We spent entire generations dealing with the "what if" another one of those happens again. we trained our children in school to "run, duck, cover" in the event of it happening. People built fall-out shelters in their backyards. Entire militaries were changed. entire countries were changed. the world was definately changed...
End the end, Oppenheimer was treated as a socialist by our government and outcasted. Still the impact he had on the world is mind boggling, even if 99% of the people don't know his relation to it.
