Whites Thermal Fusion -- extra lead required?

[VicScubaVentures]

I've done a couple dives in my new Whites Thermal Fusion undergarment. While I do find that it is toasty warm (48-50oF water temps), I'm surprised at the amount of lead required to get down and stay down. I had been diving with the MK2, and was comfortable with buoyancy wearing the Fusion Bullet, 28# of lead, and a steel 100cuf tank. With the Thermal Fusion, I seem to need +3 to +5# to descend, and to stay down with +/- 500psi in the tank. Is this common experience for anyone going from MK2 to the TF? It doesn't help any that I've changed fins to the ScubaPro Gorilla fins and they're positively buoyant....

It's also seeming that despite manufacturer's claim that the TF is designed to make dumping air easier, I find that the TF traps a lot of air and that I can't position myself in the water in a way that directs air towards my shoulder dump-valve. Found myself doing a bit of an uncontrolled ascent from 30' yesterday (made worse by being under-weighted), despite depressing the dump valve and making sure it was all the way open. Is there a "trick" to getting the undergarment properly aligned with the dump valves to assist in dumping air?

Thanks,
C.

 

[TSandM]

Wow -- I haven't had either problem. Of course, I went from the MK3, not the MK2, but I dropped 2 pounds and I think I could probably drop a bit more. Nor have I had any difficulty at all with dumping -- perhaps your fin change is changing your trim so that you have more gas in your legs and feet, and it takes longer to move it up?

 

[Reallydg]

Have not had any problem with trapping air, but I do need to add four pounds if I switch from my MK2 to the TF. That said, it IS toasty warm and flexible.

 

[fdog]

I use 7 lbs less with the Thermal Fusion, than the Mk3.
I use 5 lbs less with the Thermal Fusion, than a Santi BZ400.
I use the same lead with a Thermal Fusion, than a Mk2 + Mk1.
I am too much of a cold weanie to use the Mk2 by itself.

I've had zero dumping issues with the Thermal Fusion. As with every other undergarment, I will find myself having to periodically go definitely feet low/head high on ascent, at roughly 1/2 max depth & 1/4 max depth. Otherwise, I end up with bloated feet.

All the best, James

 

[Aqua-Andy]

James, How does the Thermal Fusion compare to the BZ400 for warmth?

 

[fdog]

James, How does the Thermal Fusion compare to the BZ400 for warmth?

Andy, as a subjective estimate, I would estimate the Thermal Fusion is ~ 20% warmer.

You don't feel the difference at the beginning of the dive in cold water (low 40 degrees), they both seem similar there. However, at the end of a, say, hour long dive, with the BZ400 I'll be saying to myself "that's it, I'm chilled". With the Thermal Fusion, that point won't come until the 70 to 75 minute point.

Here's two pretty similar dives, both are scooter dives to Montana at Point Lobos. So they are very low-workload dives, pretty much like hovering in the water:


May 2011

Santi BZ400 custom undergarments, 76 minute run time, ended dive shivering. Felt cold enough that I added a BZ400 vest on the next dive.




March 2012

Stock Thermal Fusion undergarments. 83 minute run time, ended dive feeling a touch of chill. Continued diving without adding any more layers.


I have to say my BZ400 was magnificently custom tailored, and for a thinsulate garment has surprisingly good mobility. Even given that, it is not even in the same league as my Thermal Fusion.


All the best, James

 

[TSandM]

I have the same experience as James. I keep thinking the darned undergarment is too thin and too "fleecy" to be worth anything . . . but time after time, my buddies are calling the dive because they are cold, and I'm happily soldiering on. And that is NOT normal for me!

 

[Aqua-Andy]

Ok I guess I'm officially king of the cold weenies:depressed:. I did a 63 minute dive last Sunday in 42F water and was cold when I got out. I was using my Thermal Fusion with a heavy weight set of Polly pro under it. This was mostly a drift dive so I was not doing much work so that may factor in some. I was hoping that the MK3 or Sub X would be warmer but it is not looking promising. To the OP: sorry for hijacking your thread, hopefully it is info you can use. I actually added 2LB going from my Bare hi-loft with a fleece jumpsuit under it to the TF, the TF is warmer than my previous set up. One gripe with the TF is the mesh under the inflator. you get a blast of cold air whenever you inflate.

 

[zider]

I added 4 lb after changing from a Bare Super Hi-Loft.

 

[offroadr1]

this is just a guess on my part since i havent tried the fusion thermal yet. try it as a base with nothing under it before you condemn it