where to buy Deep 6 Signature 2nd stage service kits

[Deep6_Official]

@TT_Vert

Thanks for the kind words! One quick note—since this is our manufacturer forum, we’d appreciate keeping the discussion focused on Deep6 products. The broader/general forums are a better place for cross-brand comparisons.

Regarding your lubrication question: the space between the piston O-rings isn’t meant for “extra” lube—it’s intentionally designed as a lubricant reservoir. This area is highly dynamic, and proper lubrication there helps ensure smooth operation and prevents sticking.

As for parts availability, we don’t sell individual components from our kits. We only offer complete service kits, as that’s the best way to maintain the intended quality and performance of our regulators.

Cheers and happy diving!

- Deep6 Team

 

[TT_Vert]

@cerich With all due respect you aren't reinventing the wheel here and your poppet design is no different than many. In fact, it's identical to a few. AFAIK, and I know for sure w/ [Removed], some other manufacturers they do not suggest this. I didn't see any machined recess in your poppet that accepts excess lubricant. So i was curious what you have found that makes you feel this to be the case.

Deep6_Official, I'm confused, where did i say you had some affiliation w/ other manufacturers? I was merely thanking you guys (along w/ a separate vendor: REMOVED) who also provide this info for servicing as well as parts. Most don't.​

Dave

 

[cerich]

@cerich With all due respect you aren't reinventing the wheel here and your poppet design is no different than many. In fact, it's identical to a few. AFAIK, and I know for sure w/ [Removed], some other manufacturers they do not suggest this. I didn't see any machined recess in your poppet that accepts excess lubricant. So i was curious what you have found that makes you feel this to be the case.

Deep6_Official, I'm confused, where did i say you had some affiliation w/ other manufacturers? I was merely thanking you guys (along w/ a separate vendor: REMOVED) who also provide this info for servicing as well as parts. Most don't.​

Dave

Can you please direct me to another reg from any brand that is using my turbine poppet design? Because, frankly, it is VERY different than anyone else is using and you are making comments affirmatively that are simply wrong.

Why on earth would there need to be a machined recess between the o'rings on the stem of the poppet? (that part, the stem is pretty common design, but that is the only part of my turbine poppet design that is) There is no reason to, between the two oring's create enough space to "capture" enough lubricant to do the job intended. If other manufs mention this (or even know what it is doing) regarding why the stem of the poppet has double o'rings, that's on them(as in maybe the should understand the design principles and update their training materials to match)

So, once again, and last time. Nope, we and I didn't see a sticking problem, because I am not a moron.

 

[tbone1004]

@cerich With all due respect you aren't reinventing the wheel here and your poppet design is no different than many. In fact, it's identical to a few. AFAIK, and I know for sure w/ [Removed], some other manufacturers they do not suggest this. I didn't see any machined recess in your poppet that accepts excess lubricant. So i was curious what you have found that makes you feel this to be the case.

Deep6_Official, I'm confused, where did i say you had some affiliation w/ other manufacturers? I was merely thanking you guys (along w/ a separate vendor: REMOVED) who also provide this info for servicing as well as parts. Most don't.​

Dave

The poppet design was first released with the Signature. While others may have decided to copy the design, as this is a Deep6 forum it would violate the rules of the manufacturers forums to delve too deep into that. What matters is the Signature was a novel design at the time and at least compared to similar era products the parts were not interchangeable. What has been done since is outside of the scope of this conversation as no manufacturer will authorize competitors products to be used.

Just to be asking a stupid question, but we are talking about the Signature second stages and not the DGX or the Excursion?

 

[TT_Vert]

Can you please direct me to another reg from any brand that is using my turbine poppet design? Because, frankly, it is VERY different than anyone else is using and you are making comments affirmatively that are simply wrong.

Why on earth would there need to be a machined recess between the o'rings on the stem of the poppet? (that part, the stem is pretty common design, but that is the only part of my turbine poppet design that is) There is no reason to, between the two oring's create enough space to "capture" enough lubricant to do the job intended. If other manufs mention this (or even know what it is doing) regarding why the stem of the poppet has double o'rings, that's on them.

So, once again, and last time. Nope, we and I didn't see a sticking problem, because I am not a moron.

Sorry guys, i see where the confusion is here. I see this is on the signature and the manual I downloaded was for the excursion.


@tbone1004 I was referencing your excursion manual I got from your site.

@cerich I'm not questioning your design in the least, just trying to understand a recommendation you have in you service manual that others w/ the same design do not. My 15 year old D1 for one looks visually identical to this (Seems I was looking at the excursion line). But my question was more focused to the oring side of the poppet where there is mention of excess lube between the two orings in your service docs. That side is identical to many down to the exact orings/LP seat as well. I mention a machined area to accept the excess lubricant you mention between the poppet orings. I now see that you did not do that, rather you are just using that small air gap between the two orings to hold a minute amount of lube. AFAIK the two orings are for reliability and redundancy, not retaining a reservoir of lubricant. But what do I know.

Dave

 

[cerich]

I was referencing your excursion manual I got from your site. You seem a bit combative here. I'm not questioning your design in the least, just trying to understand a recommendation you have in you service manual that others w/ the same design do not. My D1 for one looks visually identical to this. But my question was more focused to the oring side of the poppet where there is mention of excess lube between the two orings in your service docs. That side is identical to many down to the exact orings/LP seat as well. I mention a machined area to accept the excess lubricant you mention between the poppet orings. I now see that you did not do that, rather you are just using that small air gap between the two orings to hold a minute amount of lube. AFAIK the two orings are for reliability and redundancy, not retaining a reservoir of lubricant. But what do I know.

Dave

The thread is about the signature second stage.

Combative? LOL, not yet, can go there easily enough I guess. To this point I was reading your drivel and recognized that you want to sound authoritative and knowledgeable when you don't know what you are talking about. My reply was to make sure that when others came and read this part of the thread that the actual facts were out there, not your wrong assertions.

The D1 (a first stage) from HOG is most assuredly not the same first stage as any we offer or have offered and as you are now asserting that it is the same as the Excursion, let me clear up that lie. IT IS NOT.


To your "AFAIK" comment, you obviously don't know. Glad I helped you expand your knowledge. Funny enough, you may have helped some brands selling regs based off OEM/ODM that they have never looked at to understand why they are designed how they are to understand their products better. Because, the Signature second stage poppet is in FACT a unique design I did, I spent a LOT (too much likely) time looking at the poppet designs out there and the how and why of the designs in order to make one that both performs better and is easier in service and assembly. It's also hella more expensive (you can ask me why with some comment that the plastic shouldn't be more expensive, to which you would be correct and show your ignorance of other factors if you so desire to take the bait I am putting on the hook here)

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

A reminder that this forum is for the discussion of Deep6 products only.
Debates pro/con vis a vis other brands should take place in a separate thread in the Regulator Forum.

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[rsingler]

Whew! Tempest in a teapot here.
As most technicians know, though apparently not the most recent contributor, two orings on a poppet shaft (or on a piston head, for that matter) are not for "redundancy and reliability". They have completely separate functions. The top o-ring is not intended as a seal, but rather as a wiper and block to keep grit out of the balance chamber. A "redundant" seal would only increase friction in a critical lightweight component.
As for lubricant, there are few places in a regulator where lube can be retained long enough to help reduce friction while not simultaneously attracting grit. Though it is not in their service manual, I can recall multiple recertification sessions over many years with another manufacturer where the instructor recommended adding lube to an identical gap in both a piston head seal and their second stage poppet shaft. While having two poppet shaft or piston head orings is not unique, neither is the practice of making use of the gap.
The purpose is to keep the lower sealing o-ring supple, and to keep friction low, while the wiper above keeps out grit. Deep6's service manuals merely memorialize this common practice.

 

[TT_Vert]

Whew! Tempest in a teapot here.
As most technicians know, though apparently not the most recent contributor, two orings on a poppet shaft (or on a piston head, for that matter) are not for "redundancy and reliability". They have completely separate functions. The top o-ring is not intended as a seal, but rather as a wiper and block to keep grit out of the balance chamber. A "redundant" seal would only increase friction in a critical lightweight component.
As for lubricant, there are few places in a regulator where lube can be retained long enough to help reduce friction while not simultaneously attracting grit. Though it is not in their service manual, I can recall multiple recertification sessions over many years with another manufacturer where the instructor recommended adding lube to an identical gap in both a piston head seal and their second stage poppet shaft. While having two poppet shaft or piston head orings is not unique, neither is the practice of making use of the gap.
The purpose is to keep the lower sealing o-ring supple, and to keep friction low, while the wiper above keeps out grit.

Certainly wasn't saying it was unique to do it, but rather was curious why they recommended it when other manufacturers don't explicitly state to do it in their service documentation (Or add it w/ revisions to said doc if it's in recert courses). With that said, both orngs have the same ID/OD and the bore of the poppet has the same ID throughout. When assembled/adjusted both orings are in said bore. Are you saying that the "wiper" oring in no way adds redundancy and reliability to the sealing of this component? If one oring failed you would still have the other sealing. At least on my regs you would. In fact, I could remove one and it would still function, albeit w/o redundancy or a "wiper" oring to keep the bore clean of debris. Piston rings do the same thing as far as sealing goes.. That is merely what I was stating.

There are literally wiper rings/seals for this purpose. Odd to spec in an oring for that unless it adds that much additional friction in this case but again, not my design. As mentioned, I was just curious on their recommendation to add additional lubricant there.