Where is your money going?

[El Orans]

I didn't take a course myself and so far I'm still alive.

You too?

 

[vladimir]

My concern about the mentor idea is that you can only learn what they know. You don't get the benefit of a fully reviewed course of instruction. There's no written material and no knowledge reviews. Now, if that mentor happens to be an instructor and the instruction happens to completely follow a known course of instruction then you get a bargain. More often than not, it's "just do what I do".

Around here it doesn't matter what your buddy teaches you about Nitrox, you can't get a fill without a recognized card. Same thing with deep and night dives from charter boats; no card, no dive. For these types of dives, an AOW is usually adequate.

One thing about our litigious society, we practice self defense. Businesses implement policies that attempt to keep people from hurting themselves.

I'm not a fan of the 'mentor' concept. It might be useful for polishing skills but I don't think it is a good substitute for more formal training.

Richard

This is at the crux of the issue. The dive industry, to a large extent, is not selling training, but access. I don't think it has much to do with our litigious society. They restrict access to create demand for their certifications. I only took nitrox because without it, I couldn't get nitrox fills. And there was nothing in the course that I couldn't have easily gleaned from a book. I have never had anybody ask for my night or deep dive certification, or an AOW, for that matter, but it's been a while since I dived in the United States.

 

[mikeyjoe]

I look at it from the perspective of how, if I buy most of my gear on-line, if I want a dive shop to be profitable enough to stay in business so I can get air fills, I'm not going to complain too much if I think the course I am taking is a bit "over-priced". Everytime I take a course from my LDS, I continue to develop a relationship with the owner and assorted instructors - people I rely upon, in between courses, for "free" advice and mentorship. The $ is worth it.
I am currrently doing my DM program and will likely buy my harness/bp/wing from my LDS to further develop that relationship, and also I'll be working with them as a DM, so I'd feel a little sheepish waltzing in with expensive gear I bought elsewhere....

Just my $0.02

 

[String]

would i have to take a drysuit course so as to use or rent one

Use no. Rent maybe depending where in the world you are.

 

[RonFrank]

I have a strong suspicion that if I walked into the LDS, and asked to rent a drysuit, I would not have issues. I could be wrong!

However a lot of the instructors know me, and so do the owners. They know I dive dry on a regular basis, and not renting me a drysuit would only hurt them. I'm certainly not going to take a drysuit class at this point.

Actually, I did take a class that I won, and learned very little since I had been diving dry maybe 25 dives at that time. However they never sent me the cert, and I think they expected me to pay for the cert application/PADI paperwork which I never did.

 

[rstofer]

So do you think then, that people should have to pay for a course for any new skill they want to learn? Such as night diving? Or diving with a drysuit? Different fin kicks? Those kinds of skills to me do not require an instructor in my opinion. There are many skills where one would benefit from an instructor but not all.

A drysuit course seems appropriate. Fin kicks would be a dive buddy thing. The difference being that messing up with a drysuit might be hazardous. Fin kicks are fin kicks (unless you are in a cave/wreck in which case we aren't talking Basic Scuba).

Night dives? Absolutely there should be a course. Just the other day we were discussing an aborted night dive that could best be described as a huge error in collective judgement. The problem here is that mentors with a lot of experience may just take shortcuts that a new diver should at least know about. Cyalume sticks come to mind. Buddy awareness, separation planning, navigation, etc. Yes, I think night dives are risky enough to warrant a class.

Same with deep dives, assuming there is some gas planning. There doesn't seem to be any in AOW.

I'm not saying there aren't good mentors. But I'm saying the average dive buddy isn't one of them.

Richard

 

[Dive Junky]

It depends how comfortable you are in the water. I didn't take a course myself and so far I'm still alive. Basically I read a whole bunch about using a drysuit, bought one and went out under a shallow pier and practiced the skills.

Yes but you did it using common sense. Most people dont put that much effort into it. That is why they end up hurting themselves and or someone else.

 

[Dive Junky]

would i have to take a drysuit course so as to use or rent one

My LDS teaches you how to use one when you buy it from them. There is no charge unless you want a Drysuit card. Sounds fair to me.

 

[String]

Still maintain that a drysuit can easily be mentored by an experienced diver and some reading and doesnt require a course unless you cant find someone willing to show you. They aren't difficult, there are only a few skills.

 

[Monkey_Gland]

They are actually stealing your money. Right now!...go check your wallet.

I like the Nitrox course. You pay money for someone to teach you how to breath. It blatantly should be part of AOW or even OW - I mean's it's a pretty standard part of diving these days.