When to render assistance and when not to?

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OP
BLACKCRUSADER

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So now we know who you are on that FB Scuba Accidents page. :wink:

In the synopsis above, you left out your laughing at other people's demise.

I have never laughed at anyone's demise so stop with your lying on that claim.

My name on FB was known to many people here before as well. All I wrote was that I prefer for others to try and remedy things themselves but offer assistance if required. Sometimes just notifying someone of a problem is enough.

I had diver so engrossed in looking into her camera after taking photos she managed to lose both her fins. Not like I was going to wait for her to try and get them lol
 

Ayisha

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I have never laughed at anyone's demise so stop with your lying on that claim...

Really? Here are screenshots of an example. You mentioned above the instructor who put his finger down a hole a mantis shrimp went in, but you left out the part where you stated, "I was pissing myself laughing" when "his fingernail was gone and he was in pain from a broken finger".

I would certainly say that qualifies as laughing at other people's demise.

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OP
BLACKCRUSADER

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Really? Here are screenshots of an example. You mentioned above the instructor who put his finger down a hole a mantis shrimp went in, but you left out the part where you stated, "I was pissing myself laughing" when "his fingernail was gone and he was in pain from a broken finger".

I would certainly say that qualifies as laughing at other people's demise.

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Demise as in death which is what the word is used for. Yes I was pissing myself laughing at his stupidity because that dude was an instructor and it's not my job to stop instructors sticking their fingers into holes. Especially those who teach for a living. He didn't want or require assistance for his minor injury either.
 

tursiops

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Demise as in death which is what the word is used for. Yes I was pissing myself laughing at his stupidity because that dude was an instructor and it's not my job to stop instructors sticking their fingers into holes. Especially those who teach for a living. He didn't want or require assistance for his minor injury either.
Why did you start this thread? What point are you trying to make?
 

OTF

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While it may feel better to fix issues on your own (self reliance and all) it's often so much better for the whole team if one diver quickly assists another so that they don't have to wait around for 2 minutes of possibly precious bottom time while a (capable) diver flails around disentangling themself or reaching that boltsnap in a growing cloud of silt.

Getting the balance right requires good communication and familiarity with buddies though.

Obviously any debate only goes for trivial stuff like clipping a deco bottle or fixing a fin strap - if you even have a feeling that someone might be in real distress GO HELP even if there's a risk of an awkward false alarm. Much easier to laugh about it on the boat deck then wish you did more.
 

EFX

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There's a reason, I think, that there's no underwater signal for "I need assistance" and that's because when we are below the surface there's a tacit agreement that I will come to your assistance if you have a problem that I can identify.

Actually, I think, there is a signal you could give although your buddy may not interpret it precisely to mean "give assistance", at least maybe not right away. The signal is to give the trouble sign and then the sign for "come here". This can be followed by pointing to the equipment that needs adjusting, tightening, moving, etc. It shouldn't take long for your buddy to figure out that you can fix it on your own or perhaps they need to render assistance. The problem I have with "a problem that I can identify" requires that they can see you and are close enough to identify your problem as a problem. But, why take chances. Tell them directly you have a problem. So, the first task is to get their attention. This is very important if the buddy swims in front of you and makes occasional glances back to you. While there are many trivial problems we could probably fix on our own, IMO tank slippage is not one of them.
 

tursiops

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While there are many trivial problems we could probably fix on our own, IMO tank slippage is not one of them.
Agreed, especially mid-water. Removing one's own BCD and tightening the strap yourself while remaining neutral is a higher-order skill, not easily accomplished.
 

nolatom

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I had a "runaway buddy" once, out at Stetson Bank near the Flower Gardens..
I should have known better, she was a headstrong and difficult personality on the boat, had to sit out a dive after going deeper than the boat allowed. But my regular buddy was going to sit it out, this was the last dive before the boat would head for shore. So I buddied with her, for "just one" dive--what could go wrong?? Really dumb question as it turned out.

She was definitely not much of a buddy, went wherever she wanted almost never checked in with me about air remaining, where to go, when to turn the dive, the basic stuff. It was like "herding cats", but I finally cajoled her back to the anchor line, I was down to 700. I turned my SPG towards her and tapped on it, I wanted to know if she had enough air to make a normal ascent, we were at about 80 feet. Nothing. Then she let go the line, and took off heading "aft", but not near the boat, towards some distant pinnacles and disappeared behind them, far away and almost beyond my distance of visibility,

Aw, Crap. Do i go after her? No, I can't, not enough air left for an uncertain-distance chase, where is she/ can I even get her to stop and ascend-type scenario. So I didn't chase her. And started ascent, all the while wondering where she was, was she out of air, am I a "bad" buddy for not chasing, what if she dies, is it my fault? Damn. Why'd she put me in this position? Is she all right? Why me, God?

Well, and fortunately, a happy ending--evidently some time after disappearing, she went to the stern, and ascended straight up without a safety stop. She was casually chatting with a couple of the very few people still speaking to her...I never did find out how much air she had left.

Not long after, I went to the DM and the Captain, told them what happened, I wanted to know if I'd done wrong, or right. They told me I did the right thing, better one casualty than two. I still would've felt guilty if she had died or got bent, even though there was nothing I could have realistically done
 

EFX

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Agreed, especially mid-water. Removing one's own BCD and tightening the strap yourself while remaining neutral is a higher-order skill, not easily accomplished.

This skill scares the "hell out of me" even if I have to do it while sitting on the bottom. I cannot even think of doing it mid-water. I've never had to do it as a requirement in any of my courses. I see it as a valuable skill especially if you get entangled and can't free yourself without taking off your equipment. I may practice this with a buddy and the Air force and Marines standing by! :)
 

tursiops

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This skill scares the "hell out of me" even if I have to do it while sitting on the bottom. I cannot even think of doing it mid-water. I've never had to do it as a requirement in any of my courses. I see it as a valuable skill especially if you get entangled and can't free yourself without taking off your equipment. I may practice this with a buddy and the Air force and Marines standing by! :)
Well, you have to do it in your OW confined water class, underwater, and again in the OW dives, at the surface.
DMs have to do it -- now required while neutrally buoyant! -- and exchange it with another person. You need to do it to execute the Warhammer Maneuver. I've thought about asking for it as part of the Solo/SRD classes...but have not yet done that.
 
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