when is a cave dive a CAVE dive

[Spectre]

So now I'm polling divers on the Scubaboard and hope they haven't made up their profiles. And considering a cave class, but not sure how many caves are available to dive up here in Alaska.
thanks all

Well, I know some people that prefer using cave diving techniques for ice diving over the typically taught ice diving techniques... your milage may vary.

 

[teknitroxdiver]

No. Many caves are thought to connect to other systems, and, thus have multiple exits. Some that don't connect have multiple exits. Just because you've got two doors doesn't mean that a cavern diver can go 1000 feet back in. Please don't.

 

[Spectre]

I was explained that a cave has only one way in and when you get deep enough into the cave you follow your way back out. I was told that cavern diving has many exits along the system. Does this sound correct ?

No. Not at all. In most cases you'll be pretty much limited to a single exit with cavern diving, as there isn't a lot of systems that have multiple exits within the cavern limits.

With cave diving... When you come to an opening to the surface there is break in the line. i.e. the line ends, there is open water above, and then the line starts again. For Intro certified cave divers... this is your turn around point. For full cave divers you can use a spool or jump reel to "jump" the line across that section, and continue.

There is concepts of 'traverses' in cave diving where you traverse from one opening to another, and "circuits" where you go around a circuit and don't backtrack on your dive. However both of these require full cave certification and special prep dives to verify that you will be able to complete the traverse or circuit within your gas management rules.

 

[Mako Mark]

I have done some cavern diving in Mexico and we did go in pretty deep but there was a few places to surface along the way. Sometimes it would only be a small hole 6 feet in diameter. . I was explained that a cave has only one way in and when you get deep enough into the cave you follow your way back out. I was told that cavern diving has many exits along the system. Does this sound correct ?

It sounds way off chris, but that is ok. I think you will find that the caverns here in Mexico often do have multi exits and theat the cavern tours are VERY carefully designed to take full advantage of the nearest surface breathable air.

To the newbie, this may not be immediately apparrent. there is something I refer to as a black surface, you can ascend and breathe there, but there may be little or no light, so does not appear obvious when you are swimming around with your mouth open saying WOW during your first few cavern dives.

One of the VERY good reasons you need a cave trained guide with full cave gear to show you around. Most operations with a few cowboy exceptions subscribe to this form of diving and wont rent tanks to anyone who cant pull out a full cave card. It is also being written into law over the last few years. If anyone is interested in Mexican diving laws (only available in Spanish sorry) I can post them.

 

[Mako Mark]

There is concepts of 'traverses' in cave diving where you traverse from one opening to another, .

D*mn you specter, you have reminded me of the UNFINISHED TRAVERSE that has been waiting for me to complete. 1.2 km completed, only 300-400m to go and my dive buddy hasnt taken a day off in 2 months.


AAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH....GET ME OUT OF THIS OFFICE.

 

[jrdivagrl]

uh, in an underwater cave?!

 

[saying]

El Morro.

According to both the "linear distance from the entrance" and the "daylight zone" definitions of cave vs. cavern El Morro is two caverns connected by a small (there's about 2 cubic feet where you can't see either entrance) cave zone. It's like a really big swim through. Since it's just one big, smooth sided, siltless tunnel I don't see why any but the strictest saftey-nazi would have a problem with an experienced diver swimming through it. But since it is pretty deep and it is overhead, it's certainly not for beginners.

 

[MASS-Diver]

El Morro.

According to both the "linear distance from the entrance" and the "daylight zone" definitions of cave vs. cavern El Morro is two caverns connected by a small (there's about 2 cubic feet where you can't see either entrance) cave zone. It's like a really big swim through. Since it's just one big, smooth sided, siltless tunnel I don't see why any but the strictest saftey-nazi would have a problem with an experienced diver swimming through it. But since it is pretty deep and it is overhead, it's certainly not for beginners.

Call me a nazi if you want, but if you don't have cavern training, don't go into a cavern IMO. Lots of bad things can happen even in "swim throughs." Air sharing, something that vacation divers are notrious for never practicing, is complicated for starters.

 

[GDI]

Don;t get yourself killed. Are you trained for such places NO;
Do you know how to run guidelines, Most likely NOT
Do you know Air management rules for cave diving, 66% of us say NO
Your maximum depth for recreational diving is 130 feet
How many lights do you Have? Is one of them really bright?.

A cavern reguardless of size is that portion of a overhead environment in which natural light is visible and limited to 200 feet measured from the surface. They do not exist at night because they then become caves.

A cave is that portion of a overhead environment in which natural light does not penetrate and is not visible, in other words it is very dark.

For wreck, caverns, caves and under the ice get the proper training!

 

[Mako Mark]

Call me a nazi if you want, but if you don't have cavern training, don't go into a cavern IMO.

You are a Nazi, but you are right.

(note to self: check membership lists of Massechusets National Socialist party to see if they have a MASS Diver listed)