When (in terms of dive experience) and where should I take the Divemaster course?

[DevonDiver]

You can't supervise other divers until you're able to manage every aspect of your own diving without impediment to your situational awareness.

Likewise, you cannot ensure the safety and/rescue of other divers until your own self-sufficiency and ability to cope with unexpected issues without a debilitating increase in stress.

The timescale needed to achieve that foundation is personal - influenced by your own physical, physiological and mental characteristics, the quality and quantity of your diving experience and your willingness to engage in routine challenging practice.

 

[irsubmarine]

as a current divemaster trainee, here are my 2 cents.

I don't think the number of dives matter that much (I don't really see why one has to wait until several hundred dives to do the DM internship). What I do think matters is that you are comfortable in the water and are able to learn quickly. I do think it helps to dive at a level where a customer does not have to look at you during a dive and wonder why you are flutter kicking in a semi-vertical position. That would not breed much confidence imo.

I also think it helps if you have a good reason for wanting to become a DM. For me, I want to do diving as a lifestyle so I wanted to be surrounded by it. I like the idea of leading a group of divers on a local dive site or assisting the instructor in OW courses. I also find it fascinating to assist with hydrostatic testing of cylinders, etc, etc, I am a scuba nerd ftw!

 

[NorCalDM]

as a current divemaster trainee, here are my 2 cents.

I don't think the number of dives matter that much (I don't really see why one has to wait until several hundred dives to do the DM internship). What I do think matters is that you are comfortable in the water and are able to learn quickly.!

I have to disagree with you on this the number of dives is your experience and in my opinion the number of dives required for DM or Instructor are to low and should not include your training dives. If you think about it minimum to start PADI DM is 40 so with OW, AOW, Rescue maybe a specialty or two 50% or more of your logged dives are in a training environment with an Instructor which I think gives you a false sense of security. This is just my opinion but looking back on my progression through DM I wish I would have dove more in between classes and honestly I started feeling comfortable leading dives and working with students around 200 dives outside of classes I know everybody is different but when you are responsible for others safety you better be squared away. This clicks for some when that on sh$t moment comes and they realize they are not as good or prepared as they thought they were.

 

[irsubmarine]

Actually, I think we are in a somewhat similar line of thought. I also think the entry level to DM is rather low and I would expect a DM to have some experience if they are to lead a dive. I also agree its good to just go after rescue and dive for a while for experience (this is what I did). However, unless you are experiencing real emergencies or practicing simulated emergencies to gain rescue skills I just don't see how 200, 300 or even more dives would be better to start a DM than say 100 dives. For arguments sake, take a diver with 500+ dives who's highest cert is AOW without any rescue or EFR training. If he never practiced rescue, how is the amount of dives he's done going to help him in a rescue situation other than being more comfortable in the water? If someone is already at ease in the water and has practiced rescues and has gone through the motions of what to do in an emergency (even if its was simulated) with reasonable dive experience then I don't see why they would have to hold off and do even more dives. I would agree that in an ideal world all DMT's have more experience than everyone... but then even more experienced divers will come a long and claim you don't have the experience. It's a vicious cycle!

 

[TMHeimer]

There are good points in both the last two posts. There is also the factor that one really doesn't know exactly how one will react in a real emergency (no matter how much simulated practise and dive experience) until one happens. I assisted OW courses 4 years, have over 600 dives, and have yet to experience one--whether with someone else or solo. Knock wood, fingers crossed.

 

[Youssef]

It seems the best thing for me to do based on everyone's advice is to do the course as soon as I can but wait until I have more dives/feel more confident in the water before trying to pursue working as a DM.

 

[stuartv]

Hey everyone,

I'm interested in eventually doing the DM course. Even if I don't end up working in the industry I definitely wouldn't mind the new knowledge I learned and the chance to travel and dive (a lot) somewhere new!

If you want diving knowledge, take your Rescue and Intro to Tech and read Deco for Divers, by Mark Powell, and The Six Skills, by Steve Lewis.

If you want to travel and dive a lot, then travel and dive a lot. You don't have to pay someone to give you training in order to travel and dive a lot.

If you want to improve your diving skills, take Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures, or GUE Fundamentals. I would push towards AN/DP, because nothing in diving is so freeing as being properly educated and trained so that you are no longer bound by NDLs.

If you do all that and your traveling and come home and decide you want to actually work in the industry, THEN do a Divemaster program wherever it is that you want to work.

Well, that's a different approach. My guess would be that if you are able to complete the course logically you would be prepared to jump right into working.

I don't think that is a valid conclusion. Based on the actual standards and requirements to obtain a Divemaster certification, I think it's entirely feasible to meet all the requirements without actually being well prepared to jump right into working. I think it just means that you are now prepared to learn how to work in a particular place.

From what I can tell, there are (at least) two different approaches to certifying DMs. Some shops do it "old school" where you actually do what boils down to an internship as part of your DM training. You get the training you need in order to meet the DM cert requirements while at the same time you are getting practical (basically, on-the-job training) experience in how to actually work in the industry.

But, the other approach is places that separate the two things. They provide the training to meet the DM cert requirements to people who take their DM course. And then they have a separate "internship" (aka OJT training) for DMs who they want to actually have work for them.

For places like the latter, I don't think it's safe at all to assume that a person who has just completed their DM cert is ready to jump right into working.

 

[TMHeimer]

Stuart, Actually, I do agree with all you say here. I was thinking along different lines when I used the word "logically"--unclear, my bad. Was thinking that in an ideal world, an instructor shouldn't certify you if you weren't ready immediately to start working. But in reality yes, many can probably get all the boxes ticked off and be nowhere near ready to work. In that case, "auditing" courses/charters could be a way to go.

A question does often come up about whether one should take the DM course to improve their diving, but have no interest in actually working. No need to rehash all those opinions here, but such a person would get their DM and be technically qualified to work. Shouldn't be. That's like sliding through a college teacher education course with no interest in being in the classroom--but you could.

 

[stuartv]

Stuart, Actually, I do agree with all you say here. I was thinking along different lines when I used the word "logically"--unclear, my bad. Was thinking that in an ideal world, an instructor shouldn't certify you if you weren't ready immediately to start working. But in reality yes, many can probably get all the boxes ticked off and be nowhere near ready to work. In that case, "auditing" courses/charters could be a way to go.

A question does often come up about whether one should take the DM course to improve their diving, but have no interest in actually working. No need to rehash all those opinions here, but such a person would get their DM and be technically qualified to work. Shouldn't be. That's like sliding through a college teacher education course with no interest in being in the classroom--but you could.

As far as being ready to work, I think there's an issue there with regard to DM training. It seems to me that being "ready to work" as a DM at, say for example, Scapa Flow is just not the same as being "ready to work" at, say Scuba Club in Cozumel.

Part of being ready to work is having the requisite knowledge and skills that are needed for topside operations. You might need to know how to run a POS terminal, or not. You might need some level of boating knowledge/skills. You might need to have impeccable drysuit skills. Etc..

Another part is having the knowledge and skills for the underwater operations. You might need to know the layout of specific wrecks, or know how to find your way around specific reef systems. Or where to find certain types of critters. Or where the good swimthroughs are. How to identify various species of critter. Where the bad downcurrents might happen. How to judge the tides. Etc..

These latter things are the things that you would really only learn by working at the place where you want to be a DM. So, if you do your DM training on a NJ wreck boat and then go to the Caribbean to work, or vice versa, you may have some of the knowledge you need, but you probably won't have nearly ALL that you need.

Thus why I think it's only fair to regard a DM cert as simply the thing that says "you are now ready to learn how to work at a specific shop." And why I would not expect a new DM to be ready to go to work (unless they were going to work at the place where they did their DM cert), nor think ill of the instructor that certified them.

As for doing DM training to improve your dive skills... Yeah.... it's been hashed and re-hashed. And I'm thinking that if the DM training would improve your actual dive skills, then you probably should dive and practice some more before you start your DM training... DM training is to train you to be a dive leader - a dive Master, if you will . It's not to train you how to dive. You should probably already have that part down.

 

[TMHeimer]

Stuart, We agree yet again. I always suggest DMCs to get certified where they hope to work. For me, that was assisting OW in NS, where I already had lots of experience. My staying away from doing charters here was based on salary (nothing, compared to assisting), and the fact that I'd have to drive a lot to take charters to get familiar enough to do them.
That's why my "logical" back there also refers to DMing locally.
I think what you're saying also refers to OW course--ie. certified in Aruba, then first post OW dive in Scapa.....