What would turn you off from a dive operator?

[heftysmurf]

Weird question and maybe I'm being goofy. It just struck me as odd. I've been with my LDS a handful of times to dive the Spiegel yet this time it was with a different op in the Key Largo area than we've gone with prior. With one op a few months ago, it was a supposed to be a double dip on the Spiegel but after the first dive, the captain said due to the current, he would take us to another wreck which didn't have near, if any, of a current. I thought, "Booo...No double dip but safety first" so I was overall happy.

This past weekend, the new op we went with, we get on the Spiegel and there's a solid current. It took getting down to the ship and hiding on or in it to enjoy the dive. Head up on the safety stop and masks are ripping off and people are wide eyed and it looks like ludicrous speed from Spaceballs with all the moon jellies flying past us.

Here's the rub. Got on board and they did NOT do a headcount. It just gave me a bad taste when you're in a ripping current with 20ish divers and you don't do a headcount to make sure folks are good to go.

Second dive was a little better at the wreck but the line again, ripping and definitely worse. Once all were on board they DID do a headcount and off we went back to port.

Am I wrong here thinking this won't be my operator of choice for the future? To be fair, Key Largo has more than a few great ops so I'm not losing sleep over it. I mentioned it to the 2 LDS buddies I was with who are instructors and they thought it was odd not doing a headcount, too.

 

[crofrog]

Weird question and maybe I'm being goofy. It just struck me as odd. I've been with my LDS a handful of times to dive the Spiegel yet this time it was with a different op in the Key Largo area than we've gone with prior. With one op a few months ago, it was a supposed to be a double dip on the Spiegel but after the first dive, the captain said due to the current, he would take us to another wreck which didn't have near, if any, of a current. I thought, "Booo...No double dip but safety first" so I was overall happy.

This past weekend, the new op we went with, we get on the Spiegel and there's a solid current. It took getting down to the ship and hiding on or in it to enjoy the dive. Head up on the safety stop and masks are ripping off and people are wide eyed and it looks like ludicrous speed from Spaceballs with all the moon jellies flying past us.

Here's the rub. Got on board and they did NOT do a headcount. It just gave me a bad taste when you're in a ripping current with 20ish divers and you don't do a headcount to make sure folks are good to go.

Second dive was a little better at the wreck but the line again, ripping and definitely worse. Once all were on board they DID do a headcount and off we went back to port.

Am I wrong here thinking this won't be my operator of choice for the future? To be fair, Key Largo has more than a few great ops so I'm not losing sleep over it. I mentioned it to the 2 LDS buddies I was with who are instructors and they thought it was odd not doing a headcount, too.

This happens all too frequently, people get complacent and don't do the simple things. Until someone get's blown out into the ocean and the coast guard comes and people get scared straight again.

But in general any operator taking 20 people to a dive site is sort of a turn off.

 

[NothingClever]

Am I wrong here thinking this won't be my operator of choice for the future?

No, you're not wrong.

Quite the opposite - you're right to expect a charter business to conduct a roll call and justified in taking your business elsewhere if the charter doesn't do it. The fact that this charter is booking 20 divers is an indicator they're comfortable operating in a sloppy manner.

Really sharp (IMO) is the way Pura Vida did it this past weekend. As Nicole got folks back on board, she reported to the Captain the number of divers on deck and the number of divers still in the water. Once all were on board, the Captain still conducted a by-name roll call. Pura Vida does business out of Singer Island so that doesn't help you in the Keys but at least provides an example that other charters take accountability seriously.

Basic stuff.

 

[johndiver999]

I remember one trip when a roll call was taken (for the passengers) and we left and then realized a crew member was missing and we recovered him a while later on the bottom.

If there are only a few people on board head count is fine but a roll call makes sense on a cattle boat

 

[NothingClever]

…and we recovered him a while later on the bottom.

Well, that’s unfortunate. Hopefully you were able to cover up the deceased crew member for the trip back to shore. Safe bet those customers still chose to go elsewhere for future trips.

 

[MrChen]

For me, there are a few things that turn off.

• Safety - As you mentioned, not doing a roll call would diminish my trust in the dive op, and I would avoid them
• Crowded - Boats which have too many divers and not enough room to comfortably move around. Definitely avoid large boats with unmanageable double drops (cattle boats)
• Attitude - I'm on the boat to enjoy myself, not put up with jerks. I'm not there to entertain the crew, they are there to entertain me
• Boat configuration - I prefer to put my gear in an HDX 17-gallon bin. This bin easily fits under the bench on most boats, but not all. If it doesn't fit, then I avoid the boat. Also, some boats have too many things in the center of the boat, and it can make putting on fins difficult. Also, if I'm bringing my camera, I expect the dive boat to be configured for large cameras, not just point and shoot or GoPros
• Location - I prefer diving in WPB and Jupiter. Why? I don't want to tow a flag or be divided into groups with insta buddies. I enjoy surface interval snacks to get the saltwater taste out of my mouth. I find the culture is different south of Riviera Beach and therefore I have not ventured down that way often
• Freedom - I dislike dive ops where the dive guides expect everyone to follow them. I get it for a dive or 2, but after I've proven myself competent, leave me alone to do what I want. Hint, I don't want to be with the group
• Competency - Not all captains are created equal. Some miss drops more than others. If a captain has a history of missing drops, I'll find another charter to dive on
• Red carpet service - I don't want to lug my tanks and gear around. I want to be able to drop my gear off as close to the boat as possible. If the boat is further away, then the dive op should have a way to load gear into a wheelbarrow. Tips are happily given if the crew handles this

I'm sure there are more, but this is enough bitchin for now

 

[NothingClever]

That’s a great list!

 

[Allen-1]

Weird question and maybe I'm being goofy. It just struck me as odd. I've been with my LDS a handful of times to dive the Spiegel yet this time it was with a different op in the Key Largo area than we've gone with prior. With one op a few months ago, it was a supposed to be a double dip on the Spiegel but after the first dive, the captain said due to the current, he would take us to another wreck which didn't have near, if any, of a current. I thought, "Booo...No double dip but safety first" so I was overall happy.

This past weekend, the new op we went with, we get on the Spiegel and there's a solid current. It took getting down to the ship and hiding on or in it to enjoy the dive. Head up on the safety stop and masks are ripping off and people are wide eyed and it looks like ludicrous speed from Spaceballs with all the moon jellies flying past us.

Here's the rub. Got on board and they did NOT do a headcount. It just gave me a bad taste when you're in a ripping current with 20ish divers and you don't do a headcount to make sure folks are good to go.

Second dive was a little better at the wreck but the line again, ripping and definitely worse. Once all were on board they DID do a headcount and off we went back to port.

Am I wrong here thinking this won't be my operator of choice for the future? To be fair, Key Largo has more than a few great ops so I'm not losing sleep over it. I mentioned it to the 2 LDS buddies I was with who are instructors and they thought it was odd not doing a headcount, too.

I would not be comfortable with that, at all. If the obvious, basic things aren't done correctly, I'd worry about the entire operation - the things I don't know much about.

It's my responsibility as a diver to make sure that my gear and I are solid, to keep an eye on my buddy and his/her gear, and to dive safely. It's also my responsibility to pay attention to the briefing and anything else any crew member sees fit to pass on regarding the dive.

It's their job to get me to/from the drop site and to brief me appropriately. Not taking a roll call means that they could potentially leave me. I'm not good with that.

I was in Florida a couple weeks ago, with Jupiter Dive Center. Went out with Ryan, Helen, Phil and Matt. They now have a requirement that you call off your name and remaining PSI as you board, (apparently to make their insurance company happy).

So, Ryan's checking me off on a list as I come on board. When they believed that all divers were on board, Phil did a roll call. Much of the boarding was done in the midst of a fairly brutal squall that had just blown in. No excuses were made for the weather, no corners were cut.

Matt did say that he'd been bringing his raincoat to work for weeks - now he had a chance to wear it.

 

[NothingClever]

...and remaining PSI as you board...

Yeah, I gotta say that's a little dorky. If JDC's insurance demanded that technique, then everybody would be doing it. That's a little deep in the weeds for an insurance company. I think that level of detail usually comes out in the context of litigation while determining if facts surrounding an incident supported or opposed the general measures to mitigate risk.

So, if I come up with 70 bar are they going to let me finish my tank on future dives?

For those not familiar with metric, 35 bar is the equivalent of 500 psi.

 

[Wants2divemore]

Additional things that concern me, not mentioned by @MrChen above:

SAFETY: No safety briefing at the start of the dive (or a half-assed one which doesn't cover location of first aid equipment, AED, O2; person overboard procedure; location of life vests, etc.). Huge concern if they don't have O2 and AED.

DIVE SITE BRIEFING: Clear instructions for exiting the boat (giant step, backward roll, etc.) and entering the boat (what is the ladder style, do you keep fins on or take off, etc.). If diving a wreck, information about descending to the wreck (do you have to hold on to the line or can you free descend). A diagram of the wreck is very helpful.