what to do with Atomic B1 1st stage & titanium 2nd stage?

[BoltSnap]

They stopped making the B1 for 15 years or more. You mean B2 then.

The Sherwood isn't in the same category as Atomic or SP btw.

 

[halocline]

I dont have any reg yet. Ive been looking at the B1, Sherwood SR1 and scuba pro S600. Im trying to find a good deal but being brand new its confusing and theres alot of info to take in.

When you say scubapro S600, you're talking about the 2nd stage. If the 1st stage is the MK25 (or 21) then I probably wouldn't get any of the three you mentioned if you are looking for a primarily cold-water regulator. For reg purposes 'cold water' means sub 50F, which means a drysuit for any appreciable amount of diving. So if you are getting a drysuit and plan to use it in really freezing cold water, you should get an environmentally sealed 1st stage, and practically speaking, that probably means a diaphragm 1st stage. You probably could get a MK17/S600 combo; that would be excellent for cold water.

Another thing to consider is that all of the regs you mentioned are high end-high performance regulators that in general brand new divers don't need at all. (In fact, nobody really needs them, there are many other less expensive regulators that work perfectly fine) There is a lot of hype in regulator sales. Once you really know how these things work and what they do, it's easy to see that.

If you are planning on traveling for diving to warm water destinations, anything will work fine. It's up to you how much you want to spend, but don't let anyone talk you into a very expensive regulator for reasons of safety, dive enjoyment, or reliability. Pretty much all regulators made by major manufacturers do fine on those criteria.

 

[NoobB96]

When you say scubapro S600, you're talking about the 2nd stage. If the 1st stage is the MK25 (or 21) then I probably wouldn't get any of the three you mentioned if you are looking for a primarily cold-water regulator. For reg purposes 'cold water' means sub 50F, which means a drysuit for any appreciable amount of diving. So if you are getting a drysuit and plan to use it in really freezing cold water, you should get an environmentally sealed 1st stage, and practically speaking, that probably means a diaphragm 1st stage. You probably could get a MK17/S600 combo; that would be excellent for cold water.

Another thing to consider is that all of the regs you mentioned are high end-high performance regulators that in general brand new divers don't need at all. (In fact, nobody really needs them, there are many other less expensive regulators that work perfectly fine) There is a lot of hype in regulator sales. Once you really know how these things work and what they do, it's easy to see that.

If you are planning on traveling for diving to warm water destinations, anything will work fine. It's up to you how much you want to spend, but don't let anyone talk you into a very expensive regulator for reasons of safety, dive enjoyment, or reliability. Pretty much all regulators made by major manufacturers do fine on those criteria.

Thank you for this info. What i want is a reg i can dive around here (50 degrees + for now) and be able to travel with it to warmer places. I see you can get Titans that are pretty affordable, but dont know how they rate. Can you mis-match manufactures 1st and 2nd stage? like a scuba pro 1st stage with a sherwood 2nd stage.

 

[noj3333]

I'll chime in as a newer diver as well.

I was given a SP reg set, so I thought, "might as well stick with SP". I added a few additional regulators into the mix. The price for some really high end SP regs didn't seem too crazy (I bought mostly used regs). Then came time to service them. The MK17 service cost was much higher due to the fact that it's environmentally sealed. SP regs also don't allow for you to service them yourself (without 'black market' parts kits, ect.). If you want to service them yourself look at Deep6, I have NO interest in servicing my own regs, so it's not an issue for me... but it may be for you.

The moral of my story... look at the long term cost of ownership and ability to get service kits, in addition to the upfront cost. Oh, and don't forget, there's a pretty good used market for regulators (and pretty much all scuba gear). I've bought several used regs and they looked almost new, once serviced I'd consider them as good as new IMHO.

 

[halocline]

Then came time to service them. The MK17 service cost was much higher due to the fact that it's environmentally sealed. SP regs also don't allow for you to service them yourself (without 'black market' parts kits, ect.). If you want to service them yourself look at Deep6, I have NO interest in servicing my own regs, so it's not an issue for me... but it may be for you.

The moral of my story... look at the long term cost of ownership and ability to get service kits, in addition to the upfront cost. Oh, and don't forget, there's a pretty good used market for regulators (and pretty much all scuba gear). I've bought several used regs and they looked almost new, once serviced I'd consider them as good as new IMHO.

Sadly, you were likely taken advantage of with regards to the servicing of the MK17. Labor for servicing it should be about the same as for any first stage. The kits might be a bit higher, but the mark up on service kits is so outrageous anyway (I've been hearing $50 for a MK25 kit) that I can't imagine even SP charging more than that for a MK17 kit.

Some piston 1st stages that use expensive PTFE grease for environmental sealing (like atomics) will cost more because there's almost $20 worth of grease in the ambient chamber. But the MK17 is a diaphragm regulator and there is minimal extra cost in sealing one of those.

I have been self-servicing SP regs for a really long time and have never had a problem finding parts. It's true that the company pressures it's dealers to restrict parts, but there are some friendly dealers that will quietly sell parts, and there's a good grey market; parts from overseas dealers who don't have this absurd restriction, ebay, etc...

The older SP regulators like the MK5/10 and barrel poppet 2nd stages (109, G250 etc) are excellent for self service because there are good sources for both parts and service materials, and there are lots of knowledgeable DIYers and some excellent techs on this forum that offer free advice.

I absolutely agree that buying regulators used is the best way to save money. Regulators made today are no better than high quality models from decades ago.

 

[noj3333]

Sadly, you were likely taken advantage of with regards to the servicing of the MK17. Labor for servicing it should be about the same as for any first stage. The kits might be a bit higher, but the mark up on service kits is so outrageous anyway (I've been hearing $50 for a MK25 kit) that I can't imagine even SP charging more than that for a MK17 kit.

Some piston 1st stages that use expensive PTFE grease for environmental sealing (like atomics) will cost more because there's almost $20 worth of grease in the ambient chamber. But the MK17 is a diaphragm regulator and there is minimal extra cost in sealing one of those.

I have been self-servicing SP regs for a really long time and have never had a problem finding parts. It's true that the company pressures it's dealers to restrict parts, but there are some friendly dealers that will quietly sell parts, and there's a good grey market; parts from overseas dealers who don't have this absurd restriction, ebay, etc...

The older SP regulators like the MK5/10 and barrel poppet 2nd stages (109, G250 etc) are excellent for self service because there are good sources for both parts and service materials, and there are lots of knowledgeable DIYers and some excellent techs on this forum that offer free advice.

I absolutely agree that buying regulators used is the best way to save money. Regulators made today are no better than high quality models from decades ago.

I paid (for parts) $34.86 for a MK25, and $60.33 for a MK 17. Just as another example the parts for my G260 were $21.45, and the parts for my A700 were $34.86. My octo, which is a R195, ran $16.09 for parts. All the labor as the same at $35+tax per stage. It looks like I paid roughly a $25 more for the MK17. @halocline, what do you think the additional charge should have been for the MK17?

As a side note, all service was done at AirTech, a rather highly regarded service center.

 

[halocline]

I paid (for parts) $34.86 for a MK25, and $60.33 for a MK 17. It looks like I paid roughly a $25 more for the MK17. @halocline, what do you think the additional charge should have been for the MK17?

As a side note, all service was done at AirTech, a rather highly regarded service center.

I don't really know. As I said, I can't imagine the rebuild kit being that expensive, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised by prices for anything scuba-related these days. Maybe you needed some part beyond the rebuild kit for the MK17, or maybe they really are that expensive.

One good piece of news is that the MK17 should go a very a long time without needing to be rebuilt again. So an extra $25 every three/four/five years isn't too bad.

 

[buddhasummer]

$60 for a MK17 kit? Wow, someone's making a lot of money. @noj3333 If you decide to get into servicing PM me.

 

[BoltSnap]

MK17 being "sealed" shouldn't make any difference in servicing the unit or make it more difficult or more expensive AFAIK.

 

[buddhasummer]

MK17 being "sealed" should make any difference in servicing the unit or make it more difficult or more expensive AFAIK.

Agree, but SP figures if it uses more parts then it's justifiably more expensive. As far as servicing goes it's as easy as a MK11, maybe an extra 2 minutes.