What to do if your computer dies

[Kern]

The 1915 USN tables were computer generated? The 1953 Table revision was computerized? When did this computerization happen? What year did the tables change significantly?

I think you are mistaking "computer generated" for technology creep.

Someone developed a model, from which they developed an algorithm, with which they computed a table. Whether it's done on a sheet of paper, a calculator, a desktop PC, or a dive computer, is of little consequence.

 

[Farback]

Well, I expected to take a ****-kickin for expressing an OPINION here. Didn't have to wait long. What I'm trying to say is that a piece of technology doesn't replace an understanding and use of the basic tools and tables, and one or more failed computers is no reason to call a careful, conservatively planned planned dive. That's my opinion and I'm done defending it.

 

[The Chairman]

Ultimately people are responsible for their own actions. If their actions don't impinge on me, then other than expressing my opinion, I have no problems with people diving outside of my comfort range. Unfortunately, often those who fail to follow basic protocols get into trouble and ruin the event for everyone. Are they being selfish? Kind of.

People often complain of the "blind trust" that some of us put into our computers, to which I say

:gans:​

I would suggest that unless YOU did the computations for your table, then you exhibit the same blind trust and mindless devotion to someone else's work. Using tables does not mean you have a better mastery of the science, any more than a person using a slide rule is any more superior to a person preforming the same calculation on a calculator!

Well, I expected to take a ****-kickin for expressing an OPINION here. Didn't have to wait long.

Too funny. Someone disagrees with you and you call that an ****-kicking? That's an extremely thin skin!

 

[fjpatrum]

Other than ending the dive where the computer failed, I don't see a big deal. How is it different than renting gear on multiple days from a shop? Are you 100% certain you're going to get the same computer every dive? I've seen shops that don't let you keep your gear, especially regs and computers, at night between dives. In those cases there's no guarantee you're getting the same computer the next day.

I won't push the limits of any computer but there's nothing truly wrong with it. Some computers are specifically programmed conservatively, I assume for liability just in case someone does push the limits.

As an adult, with 2000+ dives the guy probably has a good idea of what his limits are. Did he exceed the limits his broken computer would have given him? Did he exceed the limits any single computer would have given him? Was his computer more or less conservative than the rentals? there are a lot of factors to consider.

Who you dive with is your choice but pegging someone because they listened to your advice and chose not to follow it seems a bit shortsighted to me. Do you always follow the advice you're given?

 

[Farback]

Too funny. Someone disagrees with you and you call that an ****-kicking? That's an extremely thin skin![/QUOTE]

No, really, I don't have a thin skin. I'm just not surprised to see that an opinion that differs from the norm elicits a rapid negative response. I've been fire fighting for 20 years. We tear each other new a$%&holes for giggles.

Actually, we have a tool called a TIC, thermal imaging camera, which is to us very much like dive computers. It's revolutionized firefighting. With it, we can see through smoke. We're taught to use it as a tool, and expect it to fail at the worst possible time. We still memorize our route through a building, and if it fails before or during a search, we certainly don't stop doing the job at hand. I'm not a technophobe, but firmly believe a complex tool is not to be trusted in place of doing your due diligence.

 

[Cave Diver]

Well, I expected to take a ****-kickin for expressing an OPINION here. Didn't have to wait long.

Dude. Whatever you do, DON'T post your opinion on split fins...

 

[=C=]

Dude. Whatever you do, DON'T post your opinion on split fins...

Those super efficient wonder fins? Why not?

 

[Bossman]

Computers are just an indicator set to an average profile and an average person. They are adjustable to make a more aggressive or less aggressive profile so that they may be adjusted to closer match each individuals decompression needs.
Only one person knows how far they may be able to move away from an average profile, they will need to be very experienced.
Many older divers grew up without computers and used 'In Water' re-compression as standard practice.
Many of these older divers will have 'bent' and 'mended' themselves over the years enough to understand their body's limits.
Diving in the early years was a learning curve that few new divers will ever get close to.
There is no substitute for experience.
Give the old guy some credit for knowing more than most.

Wow. This kind of "wisdom based on experience", not science, is interesting to me. So you're saying that we should assume that this diver, since he has a high level of diving experience, probably has been bent enough over the years to understand his limits.

No one "knows" their individual limits without taking the time to scientifically study, post dive, over a significant number of dives, nitrogen and oxygen levels, hydration, exertion, body temp, water temp, time of exposure and depth, and many other factors. Even with much experience, the fact that someone hasn't been bent doesn't give them additional insight into their limits. They'll never know how close or far the were to/from getting bent. There are too many factors to consider to accurately know that.

As you stated, modern computer models are built on an average profile for an average person. The problem is that none of us know how close we are to that average person. Therefore, we can't accurately relate to or modify those models on an individual basis.

I wouldn't have a problem with the diver diving the following day with a new computer. I would have a problem if he a) did not waive the first dive after his computer died and/or b) did not plan his subsequent dives using a computer or table to model residual nitrogen and limits using the actual data from his previous dives. From the OP information, it sounds like he a) continued his dive after his computer died and b) disregarded info from the previous dives and decided to use another computer that started fresh on NDLs.

I wouldn't dive with the guy if he did a) and b) above.