What they don't tell you on their ads

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Angry Turtle

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This is from the EPA's Press Releases Page...

NORWEGIAN CRUISE LINE PLEADS GUILTY TO ATLANTIC OIL DUMPING

In the seventh major case against a cruise line for dumping at sea, Norwegian Cruise Line Ltd. (NCL), pleaded guilty on July 31 and agreed to pay a $1 million fine and an additional $500,000 to environmental community service projects in South Florida. In its plea, NCL admitted to violating the Act to Prevent Pollution from Ships by misleading the U.S. Coast Guard. For several years, NCL concealed the illegal discharge of oil-contaminated bilge waste into the Atlantic Ocean from the SS Norway and at least one other ship by making false statements in the ships' oil record books. After the dumping was reported to EPA by an NCL employee, the company conducted an internal audit and has cooperated with the government's investigation. Dumping oily bilge waste into the ocean can harm fish and other aquatic life. In several previous cases, the Royal Caribbean and Holland America Cruise Lines both paid multi-million dollar penalties for releasing oil into the sea. The NCL case was investigated by EPA's Criminal Investigation Division, the Coast Guard Investigative Service, the United States Department of Transportation-Office of Inspector General, the FBI, the Miami-Dade Police Department Environmental Investigations Unit and the Florida Department of Environmental Protection Criminal Investigation Division. The case is being prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney's office in Miami and the Environmental Crimes Section of the U.S. Department of Justice in Washington, D.C.
;-0


It just IRKs me how these cruiselines make their money exploiting, and abusing the seas resources.

This is not the first time nor the first cruiseline that has been found guilty of similar charges.

PLEASE do not patronize them

BoricuaMojao
 
Very irresponsible remarks!! You should realize that any industry has its blemishes. If we were to abandon all industry's that have harmed our oceans than there would be nothing left...no SCUBA divers, no boats, no nothing. Bottomline is, they F'd up and now they will pay.

I agree that what they did is a horrible travesty and their fine probably isnt enough, but let it go.

It just IRKs me how these cruiselines make their money exploiting, and abusing the seas resources.

Abusing the seas resources...kinda like fishing???
 
1) After the dumping was reported to EPA by an NCL employee

2) the company conducted an internal audit and ...

3) has cooperated with the government's investigation

4) In several previous cases [others] paid multi-million dollar penalties ...

From what you mentioned yourself it would seem as if a) the company may not have known that it was going on by their own investigation and their full cooperation with the Authorities and the other thing that strikes me is that others paid MUCH larger penalties, etc. Leads me to believe things like the above were taken into account. Either way, it look by this little bit that they took responsibility for their companies actions and complied and cooperated accordingly.

Looking at the list of those that had done it before it would look as if - if you follow your advice you cant go on any trips seeing as they ALL had done it.
 
"Looking at the list of those that had done it before it would look as if - if you follow your advice you cant go on any trips seeing as they ALL had done it."

True, unfortunately this issue has weighted in my decisions of not going on cruise ships. Maybe I'll consider it again when the situation changes for better. More or less in line with letting know a boat captain that he lost my repeat business when I saw someone from his crew flipping their cigatette butt into the water.

In fact, a question that I wanted to bring to the board, specially to those who have gone in liveaboards, is if they have any info on the subject, as to how liveaboards manage their wastes. As a liveaboards are something that I would really like to do.

In the case I quoted and in others that I have come to know about, the implicated have cooperated with the authorities, and have corrected their errors, that is definitely a plus.

But do a search on the department of justice's page, or even a search engine, and you will find many repeat offenders.
This is not just a blemish, but something that apparently happens all too often.

Moreover, these are just cases brought up in US waters, a more in depth search will bring up cases in countries that may not have the recourses to implement or do not have strict enough laws to prevent this type of crime. Of course, these are the exotic places they go to, and for which they exist in the first place.

I didn't mean to come accross as an eco-nazi on his soapbox, maybe I should have just stated the facts and let others draw their own conclusions; but then that would not be what we do in this board.

BoricuaMojao


:)
 
Here's what typically happens... wrenchturner down in the engine spaces makes a mistake, turns valve without inspecting bilges adequately, pumps what he thought was clean but is really oily bilge water over the side. Now he has a choice - 47 tons of paperwork, answering a hundred questions about why he screwed up, having to listen to lectures from some pointy-headed bureaucrat who's spent less time at sea than the sailor has in the chow line... or... just hope nobody sees the slick and keep his mouth shut.
A ship is constantly taking seawater up and discharging seawater, for any number of reasons. Ships have lots of oil aboard. Sometimes they get mixed up - sometimes from procedural error, sometimes from faulty equipment - even with the best crew and the best intentions. If there were a way to report spills with the goal of (1) cleanup where feasible or needed and (2) identifying how it happened and how to prevent it in the future - then reporting might be a bit more forthcoming. As it is, any oil spill at all, accidental or otherwise, is treated as a crime against the world - fines are levied, heads roll. The current system is akin to fining you and taking away your driver's license if your automobile engine blows a head gasket - even if someone else were driving. It invites... no, it almost demands coverups.
-----------------------------------
Liveaboards generally mascerate sewage and discharge it to the sea once far enough from shore. Close to shore it is retained in holding tanks. Or at least it's supposed to be.
Rick
 
Ok, I can relate to that post much better. It's obvious you feel very strongly about this subject and its great that you care soo much.

As far as the Liveaboards go, pick one that you want to go on and research the heck out of it. If your really into it, which I think you are, then utilize every resource imagineable to look for something questionable about them. Contact the EPA regarding any complaints, contact the local newspaper, obviously use the web for research, and be discrete about it. You don't want to make it known what your doing because it could make for a very uncomfortable trip if the whole crew thinks your out to get em.

If anything serious was noted, then you will definetly find it. Lastly, try forums..starting here ofcourse, ask people if they have been on the liveaboard you wanna go on etc...

Jason

"just a normal forum participant"
 
Rick

My concern on liveaboards or any vessel for that matter was not toilet sewage wich in the big picture is almost innocuous given dillution and the quantities.

I have seen though, that many offer onboard photographic film processing, specially slides(F-6 process), quite a nasty hazardous waste.

It seems like the liveaboard is low impact, as opposed to the cruises. Which basically carry a whole city along with ammenities; photo film developement, dry-cleaning (another nasty), whatever cleaning agents, and vessel maintenance fluids.

Recently I have read that a few of the largest lines are separating the hazardous waste from the regular sewage, that gives me some hope in that things will get better, we are just late in recognizing this.

Also, I am no stranger to the often times absurdities and the horrible bureaucreacy of environmental regulations and procedures. I myself deal with them on a daily basis for the company I work for, but I'd rather deal with it, than to live like it was in the pre-seventies era when everything was fairgame and some much was being lost.



:D
 
boricuamojao,

I've got to say that Rick's post is right on....I won't mention which of the large cruise line's I'm with....it doesn't matter I can't imagine we're all that different in this respect.

All waste is sorted, not just hazardous from regular, you name it...it's sorted. Batteries go in a bin, clear glass goes in another, white china goes in another, paper in another, food (with the exception of bones) waste in another, plastic in another, and so on. I know that the photo chemicals are barreled up onboard and taken off at port. And most importantly there is a zero tolerance policy about anything but food waste going overboard (this is ground to nearly a puree and only released when we're well at sea). There's even an 800 number that is plastered everywhere in the crew areas, so that if you see something that you think is an environmental hazard or if you think something went overboard you can report it anonymously. They're really serious about protecting the ocean we sail on .....and truthfully about their good name with the general public who pays to cruise with us.
 
I usually keep quite when this subject comes up. But it seems this time I have a few more people that feel the same as I do, so maybe I won't be the outcast, as I usually am.
It's a tough subject for me. My partner, Marci, is a master cruise councelor. This means in our industry (travel) she has earned her master's degree in cruises. She has been on over 45 ships.
While selling cruises pays our bills, I feel as a diver, the pains of the damage that have also been done in the past by the cruise industry.
They are trying to clean up their acts. I know Grand Cayman is unhappy about what could happen there. And I have talked to owners in Cozumel that feel the same way. However a bit more recently, those same owners told me the ships have been bringing them quite a bit more business. Groups coming off the ships, are using their boats for snorkelers and divers. They are using them for fishing boats too. Since booze are not included on ships in the price of your cruise, cruise passangers are buying drinks in the bars,and boosting sales there too. Not to mention of course, all the rest of the money passengers bring into a port town, while shopping for T shirts and straw goods.
So, hey, they are helping these cities as well. And I am one of them. I am a cruise passenger. I have been on 13 cruises and have a 14th planned on NCL for this December.
I hope divers understand this. I would really like to offer a cruise trip for divers in the future for this board.
Would anyone go?
 
interested in a diving cruise that had a bunch of the scubaboarders on it.
 

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