What style of DM course do you guys recommend?

[phlegm]

First up, apologies for Yet Another Divemaster Thread. Hopefully I'll have a slightly different spin on it.

I'm an Australian diver, i.e. temperate water (currently ~14 degrees C). I have 45 logged dives, the first 30 of which were done in the Philippines. I'm open to moving onto my IDC after I've build up some DM experience, but I'll wait a while before tackling that problem.

Everybody says "do your DM where you want to work". I' d like to work overseas, so I probably won't train here in Melbourne, where the default way to deliver the course is to dedicate every weekend for six months at your LDS. This has the advantage of training you thoroughly, and many shops also cover service and repair skills.

I have three options with regards to overseas training on my shortlist.

1. Go to somewhere like Gili Trawangan, do an intensive 4-8 week course at well regarded, busy dive shop. Pros: easy access to dive sites = heaps of diving to hone my skills; large number of students (the shop I'm in contact with commences new OW and AOW courses almost every day) means more opportunities to assist with classes, so this option is perhaps the most beneficial for gaining teaching skills. Cons: large dive shops like this seem to have a poor reputation (people seem to hate anywhere that facilitates zero to hero courses) so it may have a detrimental effect on my employability; large numbers of students would presumably prohibit the one-on-one mentorship a smaller shop could provide.

2. Go to Komodo and train with a small dive shop as the only, or one of the few, DM candidates. Pros: notoriously challenging conditions, meaning my personal diving skills would develop considerably, AND I would become a far more proficient DM since guiding divers through ripping current is bound to be difficult; some liveaboard experience; freaking awesome dive sites. Cons: very few OW courses, so I would get minimal experience in the teaching side of things.

3. Do my DM course onboard a liveaboard vessel. My research into this avenue is limited, but I gather you knock out your training across about three separate trips of a week or so each. To me this seems a little too rushed to be really helpful in the long run, and presumably I wouldn't get any teaching experience at all, but for obvious reasons getting qualified on a luxury liveaboard in Raja Ampat has a certain allure...


I guess the question really boils down to whether it's more valuable to first learn to be a proficient diver who is good at guiding dives, or to gain as much teaching experience as possible during the DM phase.

Thoughts?

 

[chrisch]

First up, apologies for Yet Another Divemaster Thread. Hopefully I'll have a slightly different spin on it.

No apology needed - we like these threads.

.... I have 45 logged dives,.......
Thoughts?

You don't want to know them.

 

[phlegm]

I know what you're inferring, it's a common sentiment on this forum. Maybe I'm just naive, but I feel like too much emphasis gets placed on the number of dives. Surely you can have a diver with >100 dives but questionable technique or safety standards, just as you can have a diver with 30 dives who has been diligently learning.

Why do you think it's inappropriate for me to attempt this course given my current experience? So far I've been exposed to: deep wreck dives (~35m ), drifts, I've seen a legitimate out of air situation at 38m, warm water, temperate water, reefs, night dives. Lately I've been diving independently, driving a boat out to sites all over my state. I own my own gear and usually end up being the caretaker on dives as my buddies are less experienced. I'm not for a moment suggesting I am an expert, but I'm a keen diver and I actively learn everything I can from more experienced divers whenever I'm with them (e.g. doing a dive with a tech diver and emulating his movements had a huge impact on my technique).

The point I'm laboriously trying to get to is that surely readiness for DM is as much about attitude and personal proficiency as it is about a raw number of dives.

 

[Aquavelvet]

Well, I will share my thoughts.

Wait at least another year and 100 more dives before starting a DM program. Right now you have neither the depth nor breadth of experience necessary to make a contribution to the sport of Scuba diving. You don't know what you don't know.

Enjoy diving for while. Dive in different places and in different conditions. Take an entry level technical class. Learn a few more things. Then reconsider starting a DM program.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[AJ]

The point I'm laboriously trying to get to is that surely readiness for DM is as much about attitude and personal proficiency as it is about a raw number of dives.

True, but is also about the experience you have gained through these dives. Reading on your experience I could consider myself as an experienced diver. I have quite the same experience as you have including cold water of 3 to 4 degrees celcius, poor visibility = normal in the Netherlands, double 12 W/BP diving, and 40+ meters depth.

I noticed a jump in my skills around 40 dives, and I'am experiening another jump again now. It's no longer about learning to dive, but about perfecting my skills, situational awareness and buoyancy. Especially situaional awareness is changing to new level. I don't have to look any longer to know where my buddy's are and ask how they are doing, I just know. Checking my gauge is confirming how much air I have left, not guessing. I know where I am even though I don't have visual reference, just compass bearing and depth. That kind of skills is what it takes to be a real DM.

Do I consider myself ready for DM with almost 100 dives, no! There's still a lot to learn from the divers who have excellent skills and lots of experience. Do you think you are ready to lead divers in every circumstance thrown at you? If yes, then go ahead but I am not sure I would dive with you under demanding circumstances acting as a DM.

 

[tursiops]

Several points:
1. The worst DMs I've ever dealt with (as an instructor or as a diver on a guided dive) are those with very little experience. They try to substitute knowledge for wisdom.
2. DMing is not about teaching. It is about helping someone else teach, so the more experience you have (and classes you've taken) the better the helper you can be.
3. I've never heard of doing a DM course on a liveaboard. Is this actually possible?
4. You have not mentioned WHY you want to be a DM and possibly an instructor. What is it that attracts you?

 

[Malpaso]

They try to substitute knowledge for wisdom.

I will be stealing that quote, not just for diving, but for all forms of instruction. Thank you!

 

[phlegm]

I understand the role of the DM. I only bring up teaching experience because I've heard from a few people that the IDC course is more theoretical than practical and that the more important consideration is where you do your DM training. So in that respect it makes a certain amount of sense to get as much exposure as possible to real classes so I can see how experienced instructors tackle various issues. On the other hand, I can see the logic in crossing that bridge when I come to it and just focusing on becoming a good DM.

To your questions, yes, it's possible to get trained on a liveaboard (I was surprised too!). For example: White Manta Diving - PADI Divemaster
Like I said, no idea if it's actually a good plan.

As for my motivation, it's a few things. Mainly I just want move overseas and dive every day, so going professional is an obvious way to do that. Using the DM course as a way to dive in a location I'm desperate to visit is also a powerful motivator (looking at you, Komodo). Possibility of continuing to instructor is a decision I'll hold off on until I see how I like the lifestyle, but I constantly hear about the difficulty of finding paying work as a DM so working to instructor level eventually seems like the only way to make it viable in the longer term. Even if none of that pans out, I'd still like to do the course if only to further my skills.

 

[azmodan50]

I know what you're inferring, it's a common sentiment on this forum. Maybe I'm just naive, but I feel like too much emphasis gets placed on the number of dives. Surely you can have a diver with >100 dives but questionable technique or safety standards, just as you can have a diver with 30 dives who has been diligently learning.

Why do you think it's inappropriate for me to attempt this course given my current experience? So far I've been exposed to: deep wreck dives (~35m ), drifts, I've seen a legitimate out of air situation at 38m, warm water, temperate water, reefs, night dives. Lately I've been diving independently, driving a boat out to sites all over my state. I own my own gear and usually end up being the caretaker on dives as my buddies are less experienced. I'm not for a moment suggesting I am an expert, but I'm a keen diver and I actively learn everything I can from more experienced divers whenever I'm with them (e.g. doing a dive with a tech diver and emulating his movements had a huge impact on my technique).

The point I'm laboriously trying to get to is that surely readiness for DM is as much about attitude and personal proficiency as it is about a raw number of dives.

I'm going to be the exception to the rule here and say your number of dives doesn't matter. Most training agencies have a required number of dives before you can start the program. So if they think 45 dives is enough, then it's enough. Also, no instructor worth the price of admission will even certify you as a DM if you don't meet all the standards.

People here think you need to be experienced in ever possible scenario before you become a DM. But the fact is, you only need to be experienced in whatever capacity you will be working. There's no need to be experienced in cold water dry suit diving if you'll only be DMing in the Caribbean. There's no need to be experienced with deep diving if the place you work never goes beyond 60 feet.

Also, the certification doesn't mean you will be working as a DM right away. You can gain the experience at any time.

 

[RJP]

Even if none of that pans out, I'd still like to do the course if only to further my skills.

FYI - the DM course will not "further" your diving skills in any way. (Other than perhaps via whatever dive experience you gather during the course... which experience could be better had by simply going diving.)

Not trying to dissuade you, but you oughta know what you're getting into.