What makes a master diver?

[MXGratefulDiver]

So in other words a doctor dont have any obligation to help you if you have a stroke next to him, if the doctor is not on duty? Ok...

Different situation ... in the case under discussion, there was no medical emergency. There was no one requiring assistance. There was simply someone making the assumption that you were responsible for her safety, regardless of whether or not there had been prior knowledge or agreement of such.

As a professional, you are under no obligation to offer your services to anyone for free. In fact, doing so devalues you as a professional. If that's what you want to do, then go for it. But by all means, you should discuss, and agree to, the situation beforehand ... not after the fact.

Underwater, assumptions can also get people killed ... your obligation is to the person you agreed to dive with, not someone who just swims up to you out of the blue and assumes you're responsible for them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[fisheyeview]

Read my posts, you will find I quoted you accurately and in context.

-j-

Interesting how you quoted me "accurately and in context". I never said you quoted me at all. I simply asked you to read my post, and in context. The person you quoted was not me, but another poster who was responding to the discussion.

As to your other observations you are entitled to your opinion. Even if it is skewed.

 

[Walter]

I've merely seen a difference of opinion, no name calling, no personal attacks, I must have missed a good post or two.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Maybe we should just get back to the conversation ... and perhaps put more effort into discussing our differences as though we were all in the same room together ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[RonFrank]

Mod Post

Since some of you gentleman seem incapable of recognizing an insult, or name calling, or a personal attack, all violations of the TOS, here are a few examples from this thread.


"get a life"

"your a diver who to me has done 1 big day . the 12 of dec (according to your avator) . a few dives before and a few after . and majicaly you are a master of the art . "

"Personally I think you are an Idiot if you think "most" of the divers out there are Instructors. "

"Well, teach me Old Wise One. Instead of sitting there like a piece of ****. And to think this all got started by some Uni-brow GUE wanna be."

As Mods our job is to help keep things Civil on SB. I attempted to just let the conversation run without editing or deleting posts, but a few of you don't seem to feel that is adequate. At this point, I'm going to remove any violations I find on this thread, starting with the off topic discussion in response to my mod post.

I would suggest to get back on topic.

Thanks for your understanding.

 

[Sideband]

Read my posts, you will find I quoted you accurately and in context.

Last time I checked, Divemasters pay annual dues. Please show me *anything* that says you can pick and choose the times when you are a divemaster, or not a divemaster. As far as I recall a Divemaster is expected to display "Ethical role model behaviour", and I do not see any caveat that says "when it suits them".

Deliberately attempting to lose a tagging along diver can in no way be considered "Ethical role model behaviour". At the least, for the newbie diver, she will get the impresion that "Divemasters" are, well, you can work it out.

You might like to look at it in terms of what position you would have been in if something had happened to that diver after you had "deliberately" lost her underwater. Say that diver had not surfaced? You might try to claim that the newbie was not your responsibility - good luck. You are supposed to be a *professional* level diver.

The fact that you were not aware of the instructions that diver had before the dive to me makes no difference - its your in water actions that I find deplorable.


The only thing you did right.

-j-

If that would have been me in the DM position I would have probably done the same thing. AS a DM I have to carry insurance. My dive shop pays for that insurance and unless I am performing duties for that dive shop I am not covered.
As for being a "professional diver", yes I am, when I am being compensated for my work. I am also an IT professional. I have no obligation to reinstall MS Office on a computer just because I am in someone's office and the secretary points out that I am in IT.

 

[fisheyeview]

If that would have been me in the DM position I would have probably done the same thing. AS a DM I have to carry insurance. My dive shop pays for that insurance and unless I am performing duties for that dive shop I am not covered.
As for being a "professional diver", yes I am, when I am being compensated for my work. I am also an IT professional. I have no obligation to reinstall MS Office on a computer just because I am in someone's office and the secretary points out that I am in IT.

Exactly,

If you carry his statement out, using his own reasoning, then if a stranger swam up to him while he was diving he would be "professionally obligated" to teach them SCUBA.

Sounds fair to me.

 

[Sideband]

Exactly,

If you carry his statement out, using his own reasoning, then if a stranger swam up to him while he was diving he would be "professionally obligated" to teach them SCUBA.

Sounds fair to me.

I don't care who ya are. That there is funny!

 

[adurso]

So in other words a doctor dont have any obligation to help you if you have a stroke next to him, if the doctor is not on duty? Ok...

NO A DOCTOR DOES NOT HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO HELP ANYONE!
Hippocratic Oath: I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:
To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art - if they desire to learn it - without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfill this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

First off, divemasters don't take such an oath ... and second off, there's a reason why most doctors will not stop if they happen upon an accident on the highway ... doing so only has potential downsides to them, however much it might help the victims. If you choose to subject yourself to liability, by all means stop and help. But no one is legally obligated to do so.

Furthermore, as has been pointed out several times already, the situation under discussion here was not an emergency ... it was an act of ignorance on the part of a new diver, and an act of irresponsibility on the part of the boat crew. No one is obligated to subject themselves to the potential liability in that case, regardless of their certification level.

By any standard of training, and duty of care, the vacationing DM had every right ... and to my concern an obligation to the person he WAS responsible for (his dive buddy) ... to swim away.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)