What makes a master diver?

[MikeFerrara]

To *deliberately* endanger some ones life so you get a "good dive" is reprehensible.
-j-

Do you think he deliberately endangered her? She had a plan for her dive and was diving that plan. She and the crew apparently thought it was an acceptable plan. Unless she were in obvious need or rescue, I don't see where anyone else had any responsibility here.

It may have been better to escort here back to the boat but she might not have wanted to go. LOL, like the boyscout helping the little old lady across the street when she doesn't want to go across the street. To buy into her crazy plan mid-dive seems like a bad idea.

 

[josh]

Do you think he deliberately endangered her?

Yeah Mike, I do. He said:

My wife and I (she is also a photographer) spent most of the dive trying to lose this diver who was following us around

My underlining there. Most of the dive. That says they tried to "lose her" over a period of time. This was not a chance encounter for a minute. This was clear she was following, and spending 'most of the dive" trying to lose her implies to me a deliberate endangerment.

-j-

 

[MikeFerrara]

Yeah Mike, I do. He said:



My underlining there. Most of the dive. That says they tried to "lose her" over a period of time. This was not a chance encounter for a minute. This was clear she was following, and spending 'most of the dive" trying to lose her implies to me a deliberate endangerment.

-j-

I guess I just don't see it that way. She planned her dive as a solo dive "following" a buddy team.

Anyway, it's a difficult thing to discuss since it's so crazy to start with. It's like asking "What is the best way to play in traffic".

 

[Thalassamania]

... let's be fair ... most folks don't think about those contingencies until they start tech diving ... (ya, I know ... your scientific divers do, but they get training most folks don't get) ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Divers who've forgotten more than I've learned do those calculations in their head automatically.

Actually I was trying to be nice and give him a hint were I thought he would go wrong.

 

[Thalassamania]

You're killin' me! The FGBNMS isn't in the business of training divers, and I know of no instructor that operates off the Fling or Spree, the only operators who consistently ply the FG. Besides, I don't know what the requirements for skill tests are, but I have a hard time thinking that they could be performed in a place where there are no platforms, landing on the bottom is off-limits, the current is sometimes powerful enough to rip the mask off your head, and to misjudge where the boat is means the next stop is Galveston (100 miles away). In fact, ALL of the sites you mentioned (the ones where I dive, you noticed), are just as I stated...each is a full day travel from my location. When I couple that with four days to complete the course (I'm guessing on the timeline...it took about that amount of time just to get my AOW, so certainly a master diver cert from NAUI would take at least as long), that's about a week of time that is quite simply out of my reach except under the most extraordinary of conditions.
Perhaps your first statement is the most accurate. I may have to move. hehe

I was just suggesting that those were places that you were likely to run into an instructor whom you could set somthing up with.

And this next line shows how we can be in agreement, yet different in philosophy. You stated...
"You agree that, “there are differences between the agencies.” If that is so then it logically follows that some agencies and some program are superior to others."
Certainly I agree than among the various acronymic agencies some will be "superior", but is that truly relevant. The statement to which I agreed does NOT mean that I think some are Inferior. By that I mean that while some agencies may have superior requirements, they are truly that...superior-meaning 'above the norm'. However, those that are not superior can still be adequate--not inferior--to the need. In other words, as long as a diver stays within certain paramenters, the training may be quite adequate or even exceed those necessary for the occassion.
It's not a contest between agencies any more than scuba is a contest between divers. It is what it is...training for what one wants to do and as long as we don't exceed that training and continue to hone our skills it's my belief we should be all right.

With all due respect, and I mean that, if you have two things and one thing is superior then the other in inferior, that's what the words mean. Adequate, on the other hand, is a value judgment and may, in fact, be below the inferior one (making both adequate) or above the superior one (making both inadequate).

 

[Thalassamania]

What you said was: "Personally, I think I have forgotten more than most ever learn about this sport. Fortunantly, I still have a library to look up anything I have forgotten."

Bob tried called you on that, I tried to give you a hint so you'd not look the complete fool, but you did not have what it takes, either in your memory or your library to get it right. And where did I say that "'most' of the divers out there are Instructors?"

 

[Colliam7]

My underlining there. Most of the dive. That says they tried to "lose her" over a period of time. This was not a chance encounter for a minute. This was clear she was following, and spending 'most of the dive" trying to lose her implies to me a deliberate endangerment.

No! He specifically said that he wasn't aware, until 'later' of what the boat crew had done - i.e. pointed him out to the new diver as being a Divemaster and therefore someone to follow around. He and his wife paid for a charter, expecting to be able to take pictures, and found a diver was constantly in the background of the shots they were trying to capture, without knowing why she was there. I can understand their desire to ‘lose her’. It doesn’t mean they were knowingly endangering her. It was not 'heinous'. From the stated description, it appears they had no idea why she was following them.

 

[Thalassamania]

Once you have absorbed the critical lessson of this espisode, then perhaps you will reach a teachable moment when it would not be a complete waste of time to try and help you learn. It does not strike me that we're anywhere near there yet.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

rounded leaving about 500psi to spare.
d1 requires 66.35 cf
turn around 1103 psi

d2 requires 69.25 cf
turn around 1642 psi

... not bad, and basically acceptable.

Gas consumption would be 59.54 cf for diver 1 and 70.65 cf for diver 2.

Turn pressures, calculating strictly for a problem-free ascent, 3 minutes safety stop and 500 psi reserves would be 905 psi for diver 1 and 1092 psi for diver 2.

Of course, that doesn't take into account rock bottom, which would have them leaving the bottom at figures much closer to what you came up with.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

And to think this all got started by

... this all got started by ...

With 40 dives over 2 yrs I still consider myself a new diver. Recently I decided to get my AOW, thru my local dive shop.This is mandatory for some of the dives I want to do. On 2 seperate occasions I have been buddied up, by the instructor, with people going for their master diver cards. I should mention that I dive in N.J. where wreck diving can be disorienting with bad viz. Both times my buddies had a minimal number of dives and none in the Atlantic. Should it be this easy to be able to call yourself a master diver? My local shop advises people to do their AOW and master diver at the same time. One of the guys had only ever dived in a quarry before being my buddy.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)