What makes a master diver?

[LavaSurfer]

When I travel, or am diving for fun off of a boat that does not know I'm a DM, I don't show my DM card. I just show my AOW. If it's a wreck dive they sometimes will ask for wreck certification. The fewer carsd I have to carry the better.

I get you on the DM card, I rarely show it. I show my Rescue or some other card.

What I have a hard time understanding is your wreck statement and showing a card.
When I dive a wreck I don't show a wreck card.
When I dive My drysuit I have never been asked to show a Drysuit card
If I am taking piictures I don't expect to show an underwater Photography Card
and if I am looking for something I lost I won't show a search and recovery card.

The only card I expect to show when diving other than my rescue is my Nitrox card and that I understand. When I dive I show my rescue card and if they won't let me dive for some reason I find another dive outfit that wants my money. If they want some speciality card they can kiss my butt.

 

[Guba]

There are differences between the agencies, no?
Thalassamania

Yes, but the point is moot for me. I've done a bit of searching, but I can find only one certification agency among instructors within about a hundred miles from my home.

And somehow I have still managed to become a competent rec diver. Says who? Well, not me, by any means: however, some of the people I dive with have pretty high standards. For example, if you have poor buoyancy control and drag stuff across a reef, you might get frowns from a few folks...the ones I dive with on scientific expeditions will threaten to keelhaul you only after the stern lecture. Blow your planned dive floor or ascent rate? Your work buddy will definitely be more than a little ticked when you have to postpone or cancel a scheduled data collection dive because of your carelessness.
You get the picture. All the railing simply gets tiring when all that was needed to answer the OP's first post was an explanation of the Master Diver criteria, and then possibly how that stacks up to several other agencies' "master" programs, without all the histrionics that ALWAYS accompanies any mention of cert requirements. As I said, it just gets old.
Everyone has their pet peeves...this just happens to be one of mine. Sorry about that, chief.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

DM is not higher, it is different.

A DM will have a lot more diving knowlege and is capable of supervising other divers, which a MD is not. A Master Diver is not equalivent to a DM, thus most people consider the DM a higher level of certification.

 

[Thalassamania]

... I've done a bit of searching, but I can find only one certification agency among instructors within about a hundred miles from my home.

I guess you’ll just have to move.

And somehow I have still managed to become a competent rec diver.

Lots of people learned to dive well without benefit of a training agency and lots of people have learned to dive well despite benefit of a training agency.

You get the picture. All the railing simply gets tiring when all that was needed to answer the OP's first post was an explanation of the Master Diver criteria, and then possibly how that stacks up to several other agencies' "master" programs, without all the histrionics that ALWAYS accompanies any mention of cert requirements. As I said, it just gets old.

The OP’s question was answered within the first dozen of so posts. The histrionics come from folks who are in complete denial. You agree that, “there are differences between the agencies.” If that is so then it logically follows that some agencies and some program are superior to others.

As far as your being trapped by an agency monopoly there in North Central Texas can’t you find some agency diversity at Flower Garden Banks National Marine Sanctuary, Cozumel, Playa del Carmen or other Yucatan Peninsula sites. There should also be some agency diversity at the Aquarena Center, especially amongst the instructors that use it as a training site.

A DM will have a lot more diving knowlege and is capable of supervising other divers, which a MD is not. A Master Diver is not equalivent to a DM, thus most people consider the DM a higher level of certification.

Regardless of what “most people” think, within the NAUI system a Master Diver requires a higher level of diving knowledge and skill (which has nothing what-so-ever to do with supervising other divers) than does DM. Within other training schemes the idea that a DM is “above” a Master Diver is just a reflection of what those Master Diver programs are composed of.

 

[fisheyeview]

I get you on the DM card, I rarely show it. I show my Rescue or some other card.

What I have a hard time understanding is your wreck statement and showing a card.
When I dive a wreck I don't show a wreck card.
When I dive My drysuit I have never been asked to show a Drysuit card
If I am taking piictures I don't expect to show an underwater Photography Card
and if I am looking for something I lost I won't show a search and recovery card.

The only card I expect to show when diving other than my rescue is my Nitrox card and that I understand. When I dive I show my rescue card and if they won't let me dive for some reason I find another dive outfit that wants my money. If they want some speciality card they can kiss my butt.

I don't have a seperate Rescue cert. Back when I did my DM class Rescue wasn't a seperate cert, it was part of DM class.

Once I was hastled by an boat about doing a wreck dive. Since the wreck had the "potential of penetration" the boat wanted to see the appropriate certification, or they wanted to charge to put a DM in the water with me. They had not brought it up when I booked the dive. I think that it was their way to squeeze more money out of you. I was able to do the dive without the guide, and have not used them again. (I threatened them with either refunding me my money, facing a suit, or letting me dive.)

At the time I thought that I could either carry all my specialty cards around just in case, or get the Master Diver card. Now that I think about it a Master Diver card really doesn't mean you are qualified for a particular dive. There is nothing on the card that lists what specialties the diver has that qualify them for Master Diver.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

At the time I thought that I could either carry all my specialty cards around just in case, or get the Master Diver card. Now that I think about it a Master Diver card really doesn't mean you are qualified for a particular dive. There is nothing on the card that lists what specialties the diver has that qualify them for Master Diver.

Exactly. All five don't even have to be diving specialties. You can do EAN, Equipment Specialist, O2 first aid, AED for divers and Hazardous Marine Life Injury first aid. All of them are very good things to know, but as specialties none of them require any diving whatsoever. Therefore, you can do five specialties beyond AOW, qualify for MSD and have never dove with an instructor again following AOW. You do need your 50 dives, but beyond the 9 from OW/AOW, those could be 41 dives to 20' in a quarry for 20 minutes and there would be nothing to stop you from getting your MSD card. I think this is the point being made about lack of PERFORMANCE standards.

 

[GA Under Water]

Exactly. All five don't even have to be diving specialties. You can do EAN, Equipment Specialist, O2 first aid, AED for divers and Hazardous Marine Life Injury first aid. All of them are very good things to know, but as specialties none of them require any diving whatsoever. Therefore, you can do five specialties beyond AOW, qualify for MSD and have never dove with an instructor again following AOW. You do need your 50 dives, but beyond the 9 from OW/AOW, those could be 41 dives to 20' in a quarry for 20 minutes and there would be nothing to stop you from getting your MSD card. I think this is the point being made about lack of PERFORMANCE standards.

Just because it is possible to do it that way shouldn't make anyone Shun the diver that has MSD. You have no clue who that diver is or what they have done.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Just because it is possible to do it that way shouldn't make anyone Shun the diver that has MSD. You have no clue who that diver is or what they have done.

But if the standards are that loose, what does the card actually mean? I think that's the key point. What does the card mean if in reality it can be anything from a true accomplishment to a total joke? Seeing an MSD card and not know which one it represents makes it pretty much meaningless, doesn't it?

 

[Thalassamania]

But if the standards are that loose, what does the card actually mean? I think that's the key point. What does the card mean if in reality it can be anything from a true accomplishment to a total joke? Seeing an MSD card and not know which one it represents makes it pretty much meaningless, doesn't it?

Ahem ... seeing a non-NAUI Master Diver Card.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Ahem ... seeing a non-NAUI Master Diver Card.

Correct. It's easy for me to keep forgetting about NAUI's program because it is non-existant in large sections of the country. When I specifically look at Central Indiana, NAUI is simply a non-player. Just a fact. I'd have to go to Cincinnati to find an active NAUI shop that actually runs a Master Diver Course at least once or twice a year.