What makes a master diver?

[josh]

But what irritates me is when it was only two cards military cards were accepted just like any other card. But when they started busting it up into dozens of individual categories the military cards are no longer accepted. Hummmm, we were good enough once. Oh, I almost forgot. I can be good enough again if I pay for the privilidge.

Pay who Gary? Your problem seem to be with individual dive operators not recognizing your level of dive experience - nothing to do with recreational dive organizations surely? As far as I am aware, there is no *law* that states that a dive company *has* to only accept divers from X, Y or Z organization?

So surely your problem is one of educating the individual dive operators (shops) rather than a "money" or "Dive organization" problem?

What, in this case you would be "paying for the privilidge" as you put it, is the umbrella recognition of the standards of an organization, which would make your life easier surely?

However, I am sure that whining and *****ing is fun also.
-j-

 

[MikeFerrara]

Then how can you say they aren't good? I have seen some of your other posts blasting standards from all agencies.

Sometimes I have used the term "Agency standards". It's been a problem too. People complain if I refer specifically to PADI too often but I try to be very specific often enough. Also a large majority are certified by PADI so it almost always applies anyway. Quite a few (most?) of the other large agencies have most of the same glaring omisions and a review of he RSTC standards can help see why.

I have never read NAUI standards and I don't think I have ever commented directly on their stanards except where someone provided a quote.

Based on your own expeirence or the agency you are certified by. BTW What agency is that I didn't see it listed in your profile?

The way this is worded, I really don't understand the question. Are you asking what agencies I have experience with? I've taken classes with PADI, IANTD, TDI and the NACD. I was a PADI...are you ready?...Master Scuba Diver Instructor and a IANTD Advanced Nitrox Instructor.

I suppose I could die first. Otherwise who else would be the one to judge my skills and levels. The agency makes the standard. The individual will make the diver.

An agencies standards only apply to the conduct of their own courses and the activities of their own professional and retail members (Instructors, DM's and assistant instructors, dive shops, resorts and charters). There are significant differences in standards from one agency to the next.

For help in judging your own skill level, I'd recommend reading "The findamentals of Better Diving" be J. Jablonski. He suggests some objective criteria for where a divers skills should be at various levels of training and experience.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Im getting pretty tired of certain people that assume that if you train with whichever agency youre not going to learn crap and you wont know what a good diver is because you never saw one Im starting to get sick. Some people sound like the only good divers around are themselves and everyone else is worthless because either theire too young, theire too old, theyve got too few dives, theire certified with the wrong agency or whatever... :l:

I haven't seen anyone say that but what you should probably do is read some training standards for yourself. It sounds like your wanting to shoot the messanger. LOL

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Guys/Gals ... I think the horse might be dead on this one. Not sure we're doing anything productive at this point in the thread. Just a thought.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Pay who Gary? Your problem seem to be with individual dive operators not recognizing your level of dive experience - nothing to do with recreational dive organizations surely? As far as I am aware, there is no *law* that states that a dive company *has* to only accept divers from X, Y or Z organization?

So surely your problem is one of educating the individual dive operators (shops) rather than a "money" or "Dive organization" problem?



-j-

Having been an instructor through a couple different agencies and a dive shop owner I have been contractually obligated to require certifications. However, I have never seen a list specifying which certifications can or can not be accepted.

I don't know of any reason why a dive shop or charter would not be able to accept a military credential as long as the diver had some kind of documentation.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Guys/Gals ... I think the horse might be dead on this one. Not sure we're doing anything productive at this point in the thread. Just a thought.

I guess it depends on how you define "productive". We won't reach any kind of consensus, that's fo sure. However, we do sometimes manage to get one or two new divers to investigate their own training a little deeper rather than just walking into some dive shop and ordering the blue light special. Obviously, I think that's productive.

The fantastic thing about discussion on the internet is that you have absolute control over what you read and which conversations you participate in.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I guess it depends on how you define "productive". We won't reach any kind of consensus, that's fo sure. However, we do sometimes manage to get one or two new divers to investigate their own training a little deeper rather than just walking into some dive shop and ordering the blue light special. Obviously, I think that's productive.

The fantastic thing about discussion on the internet is that you have absolute control over what you read and which conversations you participate in.

Fair enough. I guess what I mean is that I'm no longer getting anything productive from this thread. However, I've learned the hard way. I've bought my share of specialty courses I thought would be great that ended up teaching me squat. I've also read this stuff enough on here that I know the lay of the land.

But that's just me. I guess this ongoing banter may help someone ... so carry on.

 

[Guba]

We could make the analogies and expose the pitfalls of the current certification systems all day (and sometimes folks here on the board do just that), but it doesn't fix the problem--it usually only winds up in a comparison of different agencies with many folks beating their chests and proudly proclaiming "MY agency is better than YOUR agency". That gets old in a hurry.

Yes, I'm quoting myself from way back there on post number 42.

I stand by my statement. It does, indeed, get old in a hurry.

sigh

 

[Thalassamania]

fisheyeview: and why would you even want a master diver card if youre dive master? DM is a higher cert level anyways?

DM is not higher, it is different.

We could make the analogies and expose the pitfalls of the current certification systems all day (and sometimes folks here on the board do just that), but it doesn't fix the problem--it usually only winds up in a comparison of different agencies with many folks beating their chests and proudly proclaiming "MY agency is better than YOUR agency". That gets old in a hurry.

Yes, I'm quoting myself from way back there on post number 42.

I stand by my statement. It does, indeed, get old in a hurry.

sigh

There are differences between the agencies, no?

 

[fisheyeview]

fisheyeview: and why would you even want a master diver card if youre dive master? DM is a higher cert level anyways?

When I travel, or am diving for fun off of a boat that does not know I'm a DM, I don't show my DM card. I just show my AOW. If it's a wreck dive they sometimes will ask for wreck certification. The fewer carsd I have to carry the better.