What makes a master diver?

[Gary D.]

However I'm not sure I make the connection that you are trying to explain. How would a civilian agency let alone a dive op know what a navy dive card qualifies you for? C-cards at least list the qualification level of a diver (AOW-EAN-Master-etc).

What I'm saying is everyone knows how much more demanding military training is than civilian training. Yet with all the training listed below, military divers are now qualified, by recreational world standards, to go on even the simplest dive to go look at fish. UNLESS you PAY for the right to do so by getting the recreational cards.

Meeting someone for the first time for a dive I would trust a military diver much more than any recreational certified diver. I know the quality of training they went through. They are trained by a team of instructors not just one. People are either proficient in the skills or they are out. They don’t get a chance to improve them later if you’re not proficient to begin with.

To reach Master is several years of continuing education. Not 5 specialties and 50 dives. But even they are not quailifed to go look at fish.

Gary D.

Second Class Diver
Second Class Divers are trained in SCUBA, Surface Supplied (Air/Mixed Gas), and Closed Circuit diving rigs to perform submarine lockouts, underwater maintenance, propeller changes, hull repair on ships and submarines, and search and salvage operations in depths up to 300 feet. They are trained in chamber operations and the use of munitions plus mechanical and chemical cutting equipment for salvage, battle damage repair, and underwater construction projects.
First Class Diver
First Class Divers perform planning for SCUBA, Surface Supplied (Air/Mixed Gas), Closed Circuit, and saturation diving operations on submarine lock-outs, underwater maintenance, propeller changes, hull repair on ships and submarines, and search and salvage operations in depths up to 1,000 feet. They perform and supervise chamber operations and the use of munitions plus mechanical and chemical cutting equipment for salvage, battle damage repair, and underwater construction projects.
Master Diver
The military’s highest qualified diver, the Master Diver manages dive programs for Navy and Marine Corps commands. As subject matter expert in diving, salvage, and underwater ship repair, the Master Diver works directly for Commanding Officers in formulating and executing dive programs and operations, executes salvage plans for Engineering Officers during salvage operations, and controls underwater repair of Naval vessels.

The Schools
After completion of Recruit Training or acceptance in the Navy Diver program from the Fleet, individuals will go to Naval Training Command, Great Lakes, for Diver Preparation Course (32 training days, including 20 days of Basic Electrical and Engineering courses). Upon completion of the training, candidates will go to NDSTC Panama City, Fla., for Second Class Dive School, which is 70 training days long. The NDSTC is divided into Fleet and specialized sections. Regardless of their section, all candidates are taught:
• Basic gas laws as they relate to diving
• Diving medicine
• Recompression chamber operations
• Dive planning
• Diving physics
• Salvage operations
• Surface-supplied diving systems
• Use of all Diving apparatus: Open- and Closed-Circuit rigs
• Underwater mechanics and tools, and underwater cutting and welding

 

[Nemrod]

45yonewbie, it is PadI that is arrogant and greedy enough to issue cards to divers with only fifty dives and the card says Master Diver on it. That is reason enough to scoff at them.

I do not know what a Master Diver is and opinions will vary but that ain't it. I BTW don't like any of the abc agencies but since I was around when PadI came on the scene and watered diving instruction down to nothing I blame them, don't like it --too bad. The OP was clearly inquiring about the PadI Master Diver card (my interpretation of the question) I have seen flashed around and have first hand seen PadI Master Diver card holders in the water. While they seemed entirely adequate and actually very good divers, they were not Master Divers.

I am more thinking along Gary's lines as to a Master Diver, it is not a card given in exchange for dollars by some abc agencies, GUE, DIR, PadI et al or any other sort of abc tomfollery, it is awarded by merit and by accomplishment or bestowed by peers.

If you want one though I can see if I can photoshop that for you and nitrox too--lol.

N

 

[Thalassamania]

Life was a bit simpler when there were only two cards: Diver and Instructor; and sex was safe and diving was dangerous.

 

[Nemrod]

Life was a bit simpler when there were only two cards: Diver and Instructor; and sex was safe and diving was dangerous.

Amen to that. N

 

[SterlingDiver]

Wow. Rough crowd. I'm disappointed that people would laugh at a PADI Master Scuba Diver Card. If you know anything about PADI, you'd know that you just had to take a bunch of classes and have 50 dives to get it. It says nothing about your skill, but does indicate you've had at least 50 dives and made an effort to get instruction beyond just OW, including Rescue, Navigation, Deep (both required for AOW) etc. I'm continuing with doing AOW, Rescue and specialty courses because I don't feel that PADI OW is enough training for me to be let loose on my own. I am trying to get as many supervised dives and extra knowledge stuffed into my brain as I can. I don't think people should begrudge others for wanting to learn, and learn with instruction, as opposed to just going out an practicing possibly the wrong way to do things over and over.

I think it is good for me, because unlike at a gym where I can see myself in a mirror to check my form when I am lifting weights, I find it hard to focus on maybe smaller things I could be doing better diving because I'm still focused on the basics.

I don't really care what you call the card. It just seems that some people on here are making fun of others who are taking classes in an effort to get better. Not all of us dive for a living and can rack up the kind of macho street cred of Navy/career divers have and I for one, wouldn't want to represent myself as having that kind of experience because I don't. However, I feel the only people that might possibly be confused by the terminology is people who don't scuba dive and don't know what it means to be a MSD.

On another note, I think it is ridiculous that a dive operator wouldn't take a Navy diving card as acceptable proof for at least having covered AOW. It is like someone not accepting a passport for identification, with the non-thinking policy that they only take a school ID.

I think there is another side of the equation. My brother is a very skilled commercial/industrial, ex military diver. I hold a Master Diver certification from SSI. For recreational diving my certification represents many many hours of study, skills tests and a experience requirement of at least 50 dives (the rescue course alone was challenging for me and has helped me more than any other course). I am a better diver by completing the journey to get the certification. With that said, do I have any illusions that somehow I am as good as diver as my brother and can do the things he gets paid to do, no, not at all. But, I am a much better diver than I was when I first became certified and seem to be better than most on the dive boats I have been on in several parts of the world.

So for me the continuing education opportunities are well worth the time, effort and money. The card is only a representation of my extra efforts. Which I am proud of. I set some specific goals and met them.

I see no reason for the professional divers on the board to feel threatened by the recreational designations. Nor, do I compare my golf handicap to Tiger Woods. But can't we all still enjoy the sport and work to be better at it without disparaging the rec. divers?

 

[Nemrod]

No--it is not making fun of---it is misuse of words. Before this strange era where we parce the meaning of "is" and PC relativism words meant something. MASTER of anything should mean something and placing that word--MASTER--on a diving card should mean something--it should mean that the holder of that title has mastered all aspects of diving albiet within a non professional setting unless stated otherwise. Maybe if the card just said something like Super Double Ace Advanced Diver or Extra Advanced Semi Master Diver. I don't know about y'all and speak only for myself but to me words have meaning and a credit card to the LDS does not make a Master Diver, a better diver--yes, a safer diver--yes, but a Master Diver--NO.


N

 

[Eris Lucan7*]

I have no idea what do that;maybe 1000 dive depher 30meter without assident.

E.L.7*

 

[Divin'Papaw]

45yonewbie, it is PadI that is arrogant and greedy enough to issue cards to divers with only fifty dives and the card says Master Diver on it. That is reason enough to scoff at them.

But why single them out? SSI's and SDI's programs are the exact same as PADI's.

 

[ClayJar]

[...]it is misuse of words.

This is beginning to sound like the debates between descriptive and prescriptive linguistics. (They're no closer than ever to a consensus on that front, so I don't think it'll help much if we get into it here.)

 

[Gary D.]

Life was a bit simpler when there were only two cards: Diver and Instructor;

I'll second amen that. All the training in one card and not dozens of specialty cards. I goes right back to money. One class one check (no credit cards back then). Today multiple classes = multiple swipes of the credit card.

The same reason highly trained divers have to pay for lesser training cards to dive much simpler dives than they do on a regular basis.

Gary D.