What is the deepest you can do an OOA?

[EastEndDiver]

Also don't ever let yourself get in a situation where you can have a car accident,possibly fall,get electrocuted,cut yourself,be hit by a meteor,have a seagull crap on you,cut yourself shaving,etc.etc.etc..........I'll stop now and listen those that have all the answers.

 

[Soggy]

So you are saying that no one should ever even be taught that option? Should students be told that if all their training fails them and they do indeed go OOA that they sould just give up and drown?

*IF* you are already teaching them everything they need to know about interacting with a buddy, gas management, gear redundancy, and stressing situational awareness, go ahead and teach CESAs. Otherwise, that time would be better spent on teaching preventative measures.

 

[Soggy]

Also don't ever let yourself get in a situation where you can have a car accident,possibly fall,get electrocuted,cut yourself,be hit by a meteor,have a seagull crap on you,cut yourself shaving,etc.etc.etc..........I'll stop now and listen those that have all the answers.

Again, with the analogies that are COMPLETELY unrelated. If you can't see the difference between getting into a car accident and running *completely* out of gas underwater with nowhere else to go for more but up, then there is no hope for you understanding this.

 

[cerich]

Again, with the analogies that are COMPLETELY unrelated. If you can't see the difference between getting into a car accident and running *completely* out of gas underwater with nowhere else to go for more but up, then there is no hope for you understanding this.

Soggy, generally speaking there is no reason why anybody in a car or plane should run out of gas, yet it happens everyday.

 

[boulderjohn]

*IF* you are already teaching them everything they need to know about interacting with a buddy, gas management, gear redundancy, and stressing situational awareness, go ahead and teach CESAs. Otherwise, that time would be better spent on teaching preventative measures.

That was not what I asked when you responded. I was responding to a post that said that some agencies are no longer teaching CESA and are instead teaching better alternatives to it. I would still like to know which agencies are not teaching CESA, and I would like to know what those better alternatives are.

Note that what you describe is not an alternative to CESA. CESA is an option for someone who is in an OOA situation with no air source in reach. What you describe is a way of preventing that situation. While we should indeed do all we can to avoid getting into the situation, I would still like to know what those better alternatives are just in case it does happen.

If you and the poster to whom I was responding are both saying that not getting into the situation is an alternative to CESA, then our disagreement is mere semantics.

As I understood the poster, though, he was saying that CESA should not be taught at all, and that there are better ways to handle a true OOA emergency.

 

[IXΘYΣ]

Interesting thread.
Of all the emergency ascents I know of, all those that were low on or out of gas have been underwater hunters pushing it for that "one last chance" to get that nice fish on the stringer or nice bug in the bag. Some of those had been diving for years, with thousands of dives!
However... I have known others who have had to make CESA's with plenty of air/gas left, for other reasons. Three I can remember of off the top of my head:
- Buddy panic ascent control
- Injury involving rapid blood loss
- Thought he was having a heart attack
Just being "practiced up" on doing CESAs from 100+ FSW goes a long way towards making those real emergency ascents (whether they be OOA or some other emergency) a whole lot less stressful, and less likely to be too slow, too fast, or to forget to keep that airway open.
So I'm all for practicing them.
IXΘYΣ

 

[EastEndDiver]

Again, with the analogies that are COMPLETELY unrelated. If you can't see the difference between getting into a car accident and running *completely* out of gas underwater with nowhere else to go for more but up, then there is no hope for you understanding this.

After diving for 30+ years in the Northeast on mostly deep cold low viz wrecks.I understand more than you ever will.

I have to laugh at the new divers who think that they are tech divers because they took a course or are drysuit experts or that it is rocket science to use doubles.There are people who did all these things by DOING and learning the hard way.Some of them are no longer with us because they made a mistake but most of us learned from those mistakes and that is what you are being taught now. A lot of us dove before there were octopus's some before we had guages or BC's.I know 5 people who have died while diving ,all on deep N.E. wrecks,we learned what NOT to do from some of these accidents.Over the years these lessons have been passed on and taught to other divers.

So when someone tells me I have NO understanding of a potential diving situation they are the one who has NO understanding as to how we as divers got to where we are today.

It is always a good idea to keep EVERY option open at all times .

One more thing,I have done 2 out of air emergency accents from 70 and 80 feet.Both times while bringing a student up at a relaxed rate while they had MY only second stage.

I think I have answered the original posters question with the above information.

This thread turned into a joke ,I am finished with it.

 

[Soggy]

Where is the chest thumping gorilla icon?




Oh, there it is, next to the "my penis is bigger than yours" icon.



Just as I have learned a bunch from people with more experience than I, many of the 'old timers' that think they know it all could learn a thing or two from people with a more modern outlook on things. Times have changed. We don't use J-valves anymore.

Some of the worst divers that I know have been doing it for 30+ years and I wouldn't get anywhere near them in the water. Some are excellent divers.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Just as I have learned a bunch from people with more experience than I, many of the 'old timers' that think they know it all could learn a thing or two from people with a more modern outlook on things. Times have changed. We don't use J-valves anymore.

Hmmmm... hmmmm.... I don't really see a "know-it-all" attitude coming from any of the old timers at all. What I do see is more like "I can remember when I knew it all, just like I see some of these young whipper-snappers who know it all today... but now I realize that not only do I not know it all, I know less of it than ever, 'cause the more I see the more I understand that 'it' is bigger than I ever imagined, and what I do know is a very small part of 'it all.' That's why it's important to know how to do as many things under as many circumstances as you can think of, because the instant you think you've got it fixed so 'it'll never happen to you,' here it comes!"
This is especially true if you're an instructor - just when you think you've seen it all, some student will think up a new and creative way to try to kill you both.
No, it isn't yet time to dump the CESA from the syllabus.
Rick

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hmmmm... hmmmm.... I don't really see a "know-it-all" attitude coming from any of the old timers at all. What I do see is more like "I can remember when I knew it all, just like I see some of these young whipper-snappers who know it all today... but now I realize that not only do I not know it all, I know less of it than ever, 'cause the more I see the more I understand that 'it' is bigger than I ever imagined, and what I do know is a very small part of 'it all.' That's why it's important to know how to do as many things under as many circumstances as you can think of, because the instant you think you've got it fixed so 'it'll never happen to you,' here it comes!"
This is especially true if you're an instructor - just when you think you've seen it all, some student will think up a new and creative way to try to kill you both.
No, it isn't yet time to dump the CESA from the syllabus.
Rick

I think that's a very true observation ... and I'm quite certain that I "knew" much more about diving after 100 dives than I know today ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)