As I understand in the case of the two divers - 1. They were very quick to capitalize on their misadventure. 2. They made public comments regarding insurance covering their search and rescue which were untrue - DAN in a separate public statement clarified their insurance obligation. Did I miss anything?
What insurance pays for Search and rescue?
- Thread starter AbyssalPlains
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Scared Silly
Contributor
I discussed this with John Lippman head of DAN Australia. DAN covered the rescue portion as they needed medical attention. They also covered a very small portion of the search as that is part of how DAN Australia is set up. This is different from DAN USA and DAN Europe.
A few comments - setting a fire is not the same as S&R. Far from it. In fact, in many cases in the USA in order to be given the bill the government must also charge the people with a criminal act. I have been on the opposite side - had insurance to pay for a rescue (my climbing partner need it). However, the Fed. Gov. could not give me a bill unless they cited me for the accident. Not feeling the need to have a federal conviction I declined.
As for SR insurance. The euros have the right idea by charging everyone for S&R. However, people accept that if they participate in an activity whether it be skiing, hiking, scuba, climbing, mushroom picking etc. That they obtain insurance for all aspects of their activity. It is called personal RESPONSIBILITY. Not everyone skis, climbs, dives. So by having insurance those how participate pay for it just like those who own cars pay for insurance.
The other problem with search and rescues for climbers and diving is that they are often high profile because aircraft are involved. Aircraft are expensive. However, in the more money is spent on other types of rescues yet they do not get the scrutiny.
A few comments - setting a fire is not the same as S&R. Far from it. In fact, in many cases in the USA in order to be given the bill the government must also charge the people with a criminal act. I have been on the opposite side - had insurance to pay for a rescue (my climbing partner need it). However, the Fed. Gov. could not give me a bill unless they cited me for the accident. Not feeling the need to have a federal conviction I declined.
As for SR insurance. The euros have the right idea by charging everyone for S&R. However, people accept that if they participate in an activity whether it be skiing, hiking, scuba, climbing, mushroom picking etc. That they obtain insurance for all aspects of their activity. It is called personal RESPONSIBILITY. Not everyone skis, climbs, dives. So by having insurance those how participate pay for it just like those who own cars pay for insurance.
The other problem with search and rescues for climbers and diving is that they are often high profile because aircraft are involved. Aircraft are expensive. However, in the more money is spent on other types of rescues yet they do not get the scrutiny.
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If young people are irresponsible enough to light fires which cause the Fire Brigade to drop what they are doing, risk their lives and in some circumstances now come under a barrage of missiles from these idiots then I think it only right that if the culprits are caught and identified then they should be held responsible for their actions.
However I am willing to bet it is extremely rare for the change to be made and sounds like a bit of a story for the internet to me.
Getting back to the OP then these people made a huge amount of money from their story but the fact that the Austrialian government decided to try and recoup some of the money invested into the rescue had nothing to do with the fact that they in your words been "touched by the British" otherwise if anyone in the UK got in to trouble and needed the services of coastguard or Life boat service we would be charged and we are not, so what other countries do is their business.
The original post cites a 6-month-old article, not the recently-released Australian government's investigation that recommends OzSail and its former dive trip director, Kylie Irwin, be charged with a crime: "Penalties [may] include up to six months' imprisonment, individual fines of $37,500 and a company fine of $187,500."
The Exec Director of DAN Asia-Pacific published a letter to admonish dive industry professionals who were spreading libelous and slanderous "facts" about the victims.
http://www.danasiapacific.org/main/_pdf/give_these_divers_a_break.pdf
A $250,000 payday for the couple? "Life-rights" contracts almost always involve a small earnest-money deposit; the big payment comes only if the story goes into production as a commercial book or movie (not just a news item). No book or movie, no big payday. Doubtful such a sum would be paid just to appear on a US network morning talk show. That said, I have no knowledge of this specific case.
Put into context bogus claims, from six months ago, that the couple staged their own disappearance to "get rich quick." To this day, key leaders of the Queensland dive industry refuse to acknowledge that the Lonergan couple, who's 1998 abandonment inspired the movie "Open Water," were actually left behind. Many industry heavyweights still claim that the Lonergan's staged their own disappearance!
Too much of the dive industry's "Risk Management" strategy is just code for "blame the victim." Obfuscating lapses in safety just invites heavy-handing government oversight, like fines for S&R costs. Clear-eyed diving consumers can likewise smell ridiculous excuses.
Updates on this from:
10-Foot-Stop blog
Ten Foot Stop Weblog - Bravenet Blog
Australia's biggest news network
Dive couple Richard Neely and Allyson Dalton told truth | News.com.au Top stories | News.com.au
CDNN
CDNN :: OzSail, Scuba Instructor Kylie Irwin Face Criminal Charges
Big Blue Tech
OzSail, scuba instructor Kylie Irwin face criminal charges | Big Blue Tech News
The Exec Director of DAN Asia-Pacific published a letter to admonish dive industry professionals who were spreading libelous and slanderous "facts" about the victims.
http://www.danasiapacific.org/main/_pdf/give_these_divers_a_break.pdf
A $250,000 payday for the couple? "Life-rights" contracts almost always involve a small earnest-money deposit; the big payment comes only if the story goes into production as a commercial book or movie (not just a news item). No book or movie, no big payday. Doubtful such a sum would be paid just to appear on a US network morning talk show. That said, I have no knowledge of this specific case.
Put into context bogus claims, from six months ago, that the couple staged their own disappearance to "get rich quick." To this day, key leaders of the Queensland dive industry refuse to acknowledge that the Lonergan couple, who's 1998 abandonment inspired the movie "Open Water," were actually left behind. Many industry heavyweights still claim that the Lonergan's staged their own disappearance!
Too much of the dive industry's "Risk Management" strategy is just code for "blame the victim." Obfuscating lapses in safety just invites heavy-handing government oversight, like fines for S&R costs. Clear-eyed diving consumers can likewise smell ridiculous excuses.
Updates on this from:
10-Foot-Stop blog
Ten Foot Stop Weblog - Bravenet Blog
Australia's biggest news network
Dive couple Richard Neely and Allyson Dalton told truth | News.com.au Top stories | News.com.au
CDNN
CDNN :: OzSail, Scuba Instructor Kylie Irwin Face Criminal Charges
Big Blue Tech
OzSail, scuba instructor Kylie Irwin face criminal charges | Big Blue Tech News
As I wasn't there I can't know the truth of the situation.
I don't rely on rags like the Courier Mail or CDNN for facts.
Do you have access to the OHS report. Has it actually been released. If it has & you do, I'd really love to see a copy. As every one involved including the Qld. OHS has their own agenda, I'll probably remain just as clueless even if I do see it.
vshearer
Contributor
What ticks me off is the idiots that get a GPS and take off 100 miles from shore in a boat and then freak out when the waves get over 7'. No idea how to sail, no idea what they are doing, and in years past would have never done it as being out of sight of land would have prevented it. THEY should get burned.
From the Queensland government's website:
29 January 2009
Charges laid after investigation into stranding of overseas divers
Workplace Health and Safety Queensland has laid charges against Whitsunday dive boat operator, AP Vessel Management Pty Ltd, following the overnight stranding at sea last May of two overseas recreational divers.
Charges have been laid against the company, which trades as Ozsail Skippered Yacht Charters, alleging it breached the Workplace Health and Safety Act 1995 by failing to ensure the health and safety of Richard Neely from the United Kingdom and Allyson Dalton from the USA.
The divers were among 20 passengers on the company's dive vessel Pacific Star that left Airlie Beach for a recreational diving trip to Bait Reef, off the Whitsunday islands.
Surfacing at the end of the dive on 23 May 2008 they could not get back to the vessel and drifted for several hours before being rescued the next morning.
WHSQ will allege the company did not adequately manage the risk to the recreational divers safety. [emphasis added]
WHSQ has advised the divers that the investigation is complete and charges have been laid.
The complaint is scheduled for first mention in the Proserpine Industrial Magistrates Court at 2pm on 23 March 2009.
As the matter is before the courts, WHSQ is unable to make any further comment.
Media contact: 3225 2484
29 January 2009
Charges laid after investigation into stranding of overseas divers
Workplace Health and Safety Queensland has laid charges against Whitsunday dive boat operator, AP Vessel Management Pty Ltd, following the overnight stranding at sea last May of two overseas recreational divers.
Charges have been laid against the company, which trades as Ozsail Skippered Yacht Charters, alleging it breached the Workplace Health and Safety Act 1995 by failing to ensure the health and safety of Richard Neely from the United Kingdom and Allyson Dalton from the USA.
The divers were among 20 passengers on the company's dive vessel Pacific Star that left Airlie Beach for a recreational diving trip to Bait Reef, off the Whitsunday islands.
Surfacing at the end of the dive on 23 May 2008 they could not get back to the vessel and drifted for several hours before being rescued the next morning.
WHSQ will allege the company did not adequately manage the risk to the recreational divers safety. [emphasis added]
WHSQ has advised the divers that the investigation is complete and charges have been laid.
The complaint is scheduled for first mention in the Proserpine Industrial Magistrates Court at 2pm on 23 March 2009.
As the matter is before the courts, WHSQ is unable to make any further comment.
Media contact: 3225 2484
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