What happened to thread titled "Alligator Reef Diver [Rob Stewart} missing - Florida Keys"

[James_L]

So what happened to the subject thread?

Screen Shot - Page 1 Of Alligator Reef Diver [Rob Stewart} Missing - Florida Keys

• James_L
• Feb 12, 2017

Obviously, some of the wild speculation, finger-pointing, and mud-slinging within its 73 pages didn't sit well with the mods and/or site owner, so the thread got locked. I have no problem with that. But, there was also a lot of good, valuable info contained within the thread that indeed serves the purpose of the "Acidents and Incidents" category, and that is to provide the opportunity to learn lessons that could prevent future dive incidents or further loss of life.

I personally found many of the safety concerns (including links to additional threads and articles) very much on topic resulting in a healthy review of my own diving equipment and practices. I would bet others did, too, and that is a good thing.

Leave the thread locked if you want, but it's a real shame to make it disappear, especially with no explanation. Reminds me of stuff that happens on Rebreather World.

 

[stiebs]

You didnt look very hard. It's back under a different title after the mods temporarily locked it to review.

https://www.scubaboard.com/community/threads/filmmaker-rob-stewart-dead.540075/unread

 

[James_L]

You didnt look very hard. It's back under a different title after the mods temporarily locked it to review.

https://www.scubaboard.com/community/threads/filmmaker-rob-stewart-dead.540075/unread

Ok, thanks. I did look for it but under its original thread title. Glad to see it's still there, but looks like it got filtered quite a bit going from 73 pages to 57.

 

[RainPilot]

That's an indication of how much mudslinging got going in there.

 

[The Chairman]

but looks like it got filtered quite a bit going from 73 pages to 57.

It did. We try to keep the A&I forum on topic. Unfortunately, there was a lot of content about Sotis and Add Helium that was mostly blame-storming and border lined on bashing. It's not that it wasn't true, but it took away from the gist of this forum: to discuss vectors of these incidents in such a way so that we can learn to prevent/avoid them. Pointing to a specific person or company, doesn't help us change behaviors that lead to accidents, so the blame-storming has be redacted. There are places to assign blame for an accident (mostly in a court of law) but our A&I forum isn't it.

Are there still grey areas? Certainly. Some posts were both on and off topic. The mods edited where they could do that without offending the poster. If that didn't appear possible, then they pruned the post with a shovel. This was an amazingly tough, and so far, thankless job. Kudos to the mods who made it happen.

 

[Dsix36]

It did. We try to keep the A&I forum on topic. Unfortunately, there was a lot of content about Sotis and Add Helium that was mostly blame-storming and border lined on bashing. It's not that it wasn't true, but it took away from the gist of this forum: to discuss vectors of these incidents in such a way so that we can learn to prevent/avoid them. Pointing to a specific person or company, doesn't help us change behaviors that lead to accidents, so the blame-storming has be redacted. There are places to assign blame for an accident (mostly in a court of law) but our A&I forum isn't it.

Are there still grey areas? Certainly. Some posts were both on and off topic. The mods edited where they could do that without offending the poster. If that didn't appear possible, then they pruned the post with a shovel. This was an amazingly tough, and so far, thankless job. Kudos to the mods who made it happen.

I am glad to see the mud slinging festivities filtered out. It was getting to the point that even i could not tolerate all the off topic bashing. That's the complement for the mods.

The complaint for the mods is: What took you so darned long? Did you think you had to wait until a slander lawsuit was brought up or what?

 

[The Chairman]

What took you so darned long?

That would be my fault. Given the nature of the thread, being about a celebrity, I asked for light moderation. Sometimes we try so hard to get rid of blame-storming that the thread becomes nigh to irrelevant. I didn't want that to happen here as there was a lot to discuss that I feel needed discussing. At one point it tipped and we couldn't get it back on track. So, we locked the thread, giving it a bit of time to cool off and the mods worked it over.

FWIW, I was surprised at how few people complained about the thread... and mostly when their remarks were edited. We often rely on community feedback to determine what's too far. There just wasn't much given to us.

 

[The Chairman]

Anyone who knows me, knows that I won't pass the buck. I know that I'm the most imperfect person on the planet and I've set up ScubaBoard in such a way that I don't overly influence it. I believe this is why SB has kept growing when a number of other forums have dwindled or outright failed. I've never seen it as NetDocBoard, and I refuse to treat it that way. Personally, I embrace all criticisms and don't mind apologizing or changing when I'm wrong. If we learn anything from an accident or incident I hope that it's the maxim that I and I alone am responsible for my own safety. I need to know my limits, I need to honor those limits and when the derme' hits the fan, I need to accept my responsibility for resultant mess. I know a lot of professionals are frustrated when they don't see any accountability when standards are violated. That may not be the case here and in fact, if you go to IANTD INSTRUCTOR SEARCH and search under Florida, you won't find Sotis listed anymore. Is it a typo or is it intentional? Is it temporary or permanent? If it's intentional and permanent, then maybe at least one agency agrees that there is some blame to be assigned here. I certainly don't want to read too much into that, but this was a horrible situation that simply begs for justice.

 

[Wookie]

I know a lot of professionals are frustrated when they don't see any accountability when standards are violated. That may not be the case here and in fact, if you go to IANTD INSTRUCTOR SEARCH and search under Florida, you won't find Sotis listed anymore. Is it a typo or is it intentional? Is it temporary or permanent? If it's intentional and permanent, then maybe at least one agency agrees that there is some blame to be assigned here. I certainly don't want to read too much into that, but this was a horrible situation that simply begs for justice.

And what if the blame doesn't lie with Sotis? If it lies with someone else, or indeed, with the victim for diving beyond their limits, will you call for their head as vehemently? If (and I have no idea of these particular circumstances) the victim was not diving in any relationship aside from dive buddy with the instructor in question, would you propose that the buddy has the responsibility for the victim? Be careful which can of worms you open here. The scuba industry has steadfastly maintained that a buddy relationship is not a relationship where one buddy has responsibility for another person. If initial reports of Sotis being incapacitated on the surface are true, what responsibility does Sotis have to rescue the buddy? Be very careful what you imply with this post. You may think that you are (aw shucks) Netdoc the regular guy, but you have tremendous influence as to what gets thought about in Scuba. And I know you know this.

Sotis is likely in review status during a QA which inevitably results in suspension of the member while the process grinds on. While in review status, I expect that the member is unable to conduct training, and would be removed from the website.

 

[The Chairman]

will you call for their head as vehemently?

Wow Frank. I never, ever asked for anyone's head. I personally never ever assigned fault here. I posted facts as I understood them. I posited a number of takeaways as I saw them. I even suggested what I thought would be appropriate actions. I know that once your mind is made up about something that the facts become secondary, but I'm going to plead not guilty to those specific allegations. You're so off base here that you're in another stadium playing a completely different game.

he scuba industry has steadfastly maintained that a buddy relationship is not a relationship where one buddy has responsibility for another person.

Do you have this in writing somewhere? I've always gone into a buddy relationship with more than a modicum of responsibility. Whether or not they were my student, if I'm the senior diver, I bear a higher degree of responsibility for the dive. It's one reason I would rather dive solo. Moreover, I teach my students that they are culpable for their action as well as inaction towards their buddy not only during the dive, but on the boat. Now, if my buddy was a former or current student on any level, then my culpability is far, far higher.

If initial reports of Sotis being incapacitated on the surface are true, what responsibility does Sotis have to rescue the buddy?

Again, I would ask that you point out specific instances where I said Sotis was responsible for a rescue while incapacitated. Please, please, please, point that out. You can skewer me publicly or privately as you see fit. These are serious and outrageous charges you're alleging and most people would resent you for it. I don't because I believe you to be sincerely wrong. I am not responsible for what others post so don't make me responsible for what others write. I'm only responsible for what I post. I've been extremely careful here to be sure I don't present fiction as truth or a hypothesis as fact.

You may think that you are (aw shucks) Netdoc the regular guy, but you have tremendous influence as to what gets thought about in Scuba. And I know you know this.

Frank, I'm pretty certain that you have more influence than I do on many, many levels. Are you suggesting that I should just shut up and not express an opinion or provide facts? And Please... the "D" is capped in my user name. It's hard to brand like the Trumpster if I can't get you to spell it right.

Sotis is likely in review status during a QA which inevitably results in suspension of the member while the process grinds on.

I have no idea why he's not there and stated as such. I did use an "if" statement should him not being on the list turns out to be both intentional and permanent, and I stand behind that statement. FWIW, I'm not on that list either but for probably entirely different reasons.