What does "intelligence" or "niceness" have to do with it?

[lock_washer]

You're kidding, right?

If this woman was standing next to a freshwater dolphin or a cuvier's beaked whale...People would be more interested in her social life and what would see look like in a bikini than the animal itself.

 

[diversteve]

Norwegian whaling is NOT done covered as scientific researc, its done commercially and Norway is NOT bound by the IWC No commercial whaling policy as we formally objected to that policy.
The conservation status of the minke whale is Near Thretened, NOT endangered.
Endangered is only one of three different classifications within the threatened aspect.
However, considering that the minke whales is NT, caution is of course required in order to let the population grow at the same time as we hunt them.

I didn't know that Norway wasn't a party to the IWC treaty. But it doesn't really alter my position. If anything knowing that they're Near Threatened makes me more concerned about the future of Minke Whales.

Nothing personal but Norway didn't do so well managing the herring population a few decades ago, so forgive me if I'm skeptical that you can now do so with a Near Threatened species that will take longer to rebound if overfished due to the time to maturation and size of the overall population. And as good as your intentions are, they might also not be reflective of the commercial whaling operations in your country.

I doubt very much that many Japanese citizens would condone the hunting and killing of Migaloo the white humpback, yet the fisheries dept. of their country didn't say it wouldn't happen in their initial press release. That would've been an easy PR move for them to instruct the single factory ship to leave him alone. But they didnt....

In this country, corporations with deep pockets often get what they want at the expense of the environment. I doubt it's much different elsewhere.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

I didn't know that Norway wasn't a party to the IWC treaty. But it doesn't really alter my position. If anything knowing that they're Near Threatened makes me more concerned about the future of Minke Whales.

Nothing personal but Norway didn't do so well managing the herring population a few decades ago, so forgive me if I'm skeptical that you can now do so with a Near Threatened species that will take longer to rebound if overfished due to the time to maturation and size of the overall population. And as good as your intentions are, they might also not be reflective of the commercial whaling operations in your country.

HELLO!!!! You got that about the herring from ME, as I took it as an example that WE INDEED wouldn't do the same mistake again with our resources. Shouldn't you at least mention this? But instead you try to use it as your own argument. It's a bit annoying to hear it from you that we Norwegians might not be such "reflective" people that we could "do it again".

To do a mistake is unfortunate, but not always stupid.
To do the same mistake twice is.... STUPID.
I don't feel we are stupid...

 

[diversteve]

Exactly - it's very subjective. So how does a subjective emotional response give anyone the right to tell others how they may live?

I personally don't condone quite a number of things - killing and eating dolphins and whales among them. I also don't condone people carrying guns, spearfishing, eating lobster - lot's of things actually. I would never do any of those things myself - but I don't see that as giving me any right at all to tell others that they can't if it's legal where they are.

As abhorrent as the Taiji & Futo dolphin hunts are, they aren't illegal. For at least part of the Japanese whaling hunt, that is also permitted in clauses in the convention. Quite probably all of it is. People might wish it wasn't so and actually pretend that they're right and what the Japanese do IS illegal - but the fact is it isn't. If it was I'm quite sure the Australian CG/Navy for one would be arresting people and impounding boats as they do frequently in the case of other illegal fishing in the Southern Oceans.

People may not like it, but that's how it is. It doesn't matter how many times anyone says differently, and that even if it's not illegal it should be etc etc as it stands now the Japanese are operating within the rules of the IWC.

Technically you're right, there are no legal grounds to stop them. But I will always oppose them on moral grounds. As is my right since I don't like it.

Technically the Sea Shepherd Organization is a legal entiity operating within the laws of some nations so supporting them is my right also even though their stated objective violates the law of other nations. As did Greenpeace in the past.

 

[diversteve]

HELLO!!!! You got that about the herring from ME, as I took it as an example that WE INDEED wouldn't do the same mistake again with our resources. Shouldn't you at least mention this? But instead you try to use it as your own argument. It's a bit annoying to hear it from you that we Norwegians might not be such "reflective" people that we could "do it again".

To do a mistake is unfortunate, but not always stupid.
To do the same mistake twice is.... STUPID.
I don't feel we are stupid...

Sorry, I didn't realize that I needed to quote you on that. For the record, yes I did re-phrase information from your earlier post, however I'm also quite certain that I've seen other references to the herring situation in the past. Maybe even at greenpeace.org - I can't recall. And you put the information out there so expect it to be used by others even if it doesn't support your point of view.

I'm sorry if you're annoyed by it, but feel free to prove me wrong. I hope you do.

And I don't consider the Norwegian people stupid, my point further along was that commercial and market influences don't always allow for the protection of species until it's almost too late. As was the case with your country's almost eliminating the herring population in your region. I doubt any rational person would've wanted it to happen yet somehow it did.

 

[amitsi]

LOL. And we'd got so far through the thread without anyone hurling personal insults!

My friend - you don't know me at all.

personal insults? ...and you took the discussion to a tangent by saying if species are cute that should not stop us from killing them, I agreed with you here

But you are taking about animals which are not present in large quantities and if there was no pressure by moral high grounder peta types...the killing rate would be way higher...you are trivializing people who are doing something for enviorment and the underwater ecosystem...by saying these guys want to save them cuz they r cute...which to me a insult to every scientist and conservatism proponent in the world!

And pls don't compare them to cows n chicken which are bred for eating...don't think KFC will ever let them be extinct

anyways its no point talking here...

 

[Tigerman]

...
Nothing personal but Norway didn't do so well managing the herring population a few decades ago, so forgive me if I'm skeptical that you can now do so with a Near Threatened species that will take longer to rebound if overfished due to the time to maturation and size of the overall population. And as good as your intentions are, they might also not be reflective of the commercial whaling operations in your country.
...

And you americans did much better with the Caribbean Monk Seal?
We didnt do much better with the wolfs either, which we hunted almost to extinction ON PURPOSE a couple of 100 years ago.
But then again, were so stupid that we cant learn from our mistakes, arent we?

 

[diversteve]

quoting myself:

Nothing personal but Norway didn't do so well managing the herring population a few decades ago, so forgive me if I'm skeptical that you can now do so with a Near Threatened species that will take longer to rebound if overfished due to the time to maturation and size of the overall population. And as good as your intentions are, they might also not be reflective of the commercial whaling operations in your country.

It's my opinion and I'm entitled to express it. So far nothing you've posted has convinced me to change it. If anything you've now reinforced it by posting that you deliberately hunted wolves almost to extinction in the last century.

Part of my concern is also that all your best intentions may not be enough to stop the corporate whaling operations from decimating the species should there be more profit in it in the future.

I personally feel that's whats happening to a certain extent in Japan as I can't personally fathom how any schoolchildren or most normally thinking Japanese can possibly sanction the killing of Humpback whales.

I'd hate to see history repeat itself in Norway.

And you americans did much better with the Caribbean Monk Seal?

I honestly don't know anything about that one...but I'll look.

But then again, were so stupid that we cant learn from our mistakes, arent we?

Where did that come from???

Not from me since I clearly stated in post #55:

And I don't consider the Norwegian people stupid

We didnt do much better with the wolfs either, which we hunted almost to extinction ON PURPOSE a couple of 100 years ago.

We don't exactly have a great track record when it comes to wolves either...

 

[Kim]

We don't exactly have a great track record when it comes to wolves either...

You don't have a very good track record with whaling either. Neither do several other countries that are protesting so loudly now.

The countries that still whale now aren't exactly the reason the problem was created in the first place. (sound familiar?)

 

[Kim]

Technically the Sea Shepherd Organization is a legal entiity operating within the laws of some nations so supporting them is my right also even though their stated objective violates the law of other nations. As did Greenpeace in the past.

I personally think that Sea Shepherd is going to get someone killed sometime - they've aleady come close several times.

If you want to support that I suppose there isn't a lot to say.