What does DIR mean?

[Diver0001]

So as I read along in this thread I keep seeing George Irvine's name coming up. I had never heard of the guy. So I do a quick Google on him and found this thread I thought was interesting. You folks should read it. IF, and I say if these are really quotes from him, in my opinion, he's a nutcase. Or maybe even a STROKE!

As the BBS Turns fix - From George Irvine III:

I didn't read all of the quotes but they seem authentic and typical not only of Irvine's style but of the general tone of the DIR/not-DIR discussions in the mid 90's. Don't forget that a lot of people try to emulate their leaders and Irvine really presented a "clear" roll-model to follow.... and many did.... some still do.

That's what I was referring to above when I said that attitudes have changed somewhat. Irvine got a new job in about ... hmmm ... 2001-2002 and dropped out of the internet scene for the most part. It's taken this long for tempers to cool enough to even have discussions like this one without it spiralling out of control.

R..

P.S. Incidentally, Bob, this one comes close enough to support what I was saying in my last post:

"It is my opinion that the horrifying strokery that we see out there is the fault of the instructors... and most of them suck, just plain suck. Any methods other than what I use are bull****." -- George Irvine III

 

[rjack321]

So as I read along in this thread I keep seeing George Irvine's name coming up. I had never heard of the guy. So I do a quick Google on him and found this thread I thought was interesting. You folks should read it. IF, and I say if these are really quotes from him, in my opinion, he's a nutcase. Or maybe even a STROKE!

As the BBS Turns fix - From George Irvine III:

Oh sure he's a nutcase, I don't think anyone would argue to the contrary lol.

But at least for the first portion I read (yeah I got lazy) he' s talking about Bill Stone's cave mapping project in Wakulla over 10 years ago. AND one of their divers did actually die. The WKPP has done even more aggressive dives there since and have not had any fatalities. So despite his virulence, his poor opinions of Stone's group were unfortunately vidicated to some extent.

We are fortunate George restricts himself to his own list, building scooters, and boats nowadays.

 

[BDSC]

I can certainly see how many people would have a bad taste for DIR or maybe did have a bad taste about DIR if this guy was the supposed "leader".

 

[rjack321]

I can certainly see how many people would have a bad taste for DIR or maybe did have a bad taste about DIR if this guy was the supposed "leader".

He took charge of the WKPP cave project after Parker Turner (left or died I am not sure which). That was his only "leadership" role, except for being prolific on the internets.

GUE, the training agency, was created shortly thereafter to (ostensibly) train people to dive that project using DIR techniques and protocols. At that time, most GUE instructors originally came from the NACD ranks. Which is why "DIR" is really just a refinment of what established cave divers were doing for at least 10 yrs prior.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Nice to see that we are all acting like adults these days...

Come'on -- you dive like you want to, I'll dive like I want to, easy as that.

 

[Diver0001]

I think you and I are having different conversations. Mine was focused strictly on the origins of the term "stroke". It doesn't, and never did, mean what you think it did.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

LOL.... Long live the written word.

As for the origins, I think you can see on the quotes that BDSC linked that the term was in common use before 2002.

The definition you quoted came well after the tone had been set and the meaning of the word was well established in the rhetoric going back as far as I can remember. I don't know who coined the term "stroke" but it wouldn't surprise me if it was Gavin or Turner. In any event I seriously doubt that it was Irvine. Maybe Bill Main would know that if you still have contact with him. What happened after the fact was typical Irivine. Get in and take the credit... make it look like it was his idea.

Hence the article from 2002.

R..

 

[rjack321]

LOL.... Long live the written word.

As for the origins, I think you can see on the quotes that BDSC linked that the term was in common use before 2002.

The definition you quoted came well after the tone had been set and the meaning of the word was well established in the rhetoric going back as far as I can remember. I don't know who coined the term "stroke" but it wouldn't surprise me if it was Gavin or Turner. In any event I seriously doubt that it was Irvine. Maybe Bill Main would know that if you still have contact with him. What happened after the fact was typical Irivine. Get in and take the credit... make it look like it was his idea.

Hence the article from 2002.

R..

I agree with you it existed before George jumped in and took credit for it. But I really doubt that it meant something more than "unsafe attitude + resulting tomfoolery" like you suggest.

I am pretty sure "stroke" was coined by Parker in reference to someone "stroking" their ego even when shown a better, more rational, approach to cave or deco diving. Dan V would be able to confirm that I'm sure.

BTW I think Parker died before the term "DIR" came into existence, so I am pretty sure it was George who put them together in his now famous slagging fests.

 

[Gombessa]

I am pretty sure "stroke" was coined by Parker in reference to someone "stroking" their ego even when shown a better, more rational, approach to cave or deco diving. Dan V would be able to confirm that I'm sure.

The origin of the word, like every other derogatory term mentioned (suicide clip, christmas tree, etc.) predate DIR.

Re: If a stroke is one with an unsafe attitude, what is DIR?

The term *stroke* was coined by Parker Turner, the original project director of the WKPP. Parker, much like Irvine, had a no-nonsense approach to diving and running the WKPP. Parker had his rules as to the team and one either followed them or they weren't on the team. It was as plain and simple as that. But what Parker found over the years that there were so many people trying to get on the team without the willingness to put in the requisite work. Instead they would come up to Parker and tell him how they had done this dive or that dive, blah, blah, blah and Parker said that he was sick of these guys *stroking* him to get on the team.. That's the evolution of the word.

It has since been expanded to include diver's that approach diving with an unsafe and/or cavalier attitude towards diving..

Even before GI3's big rant on it, the definition has been accepted as one who is an unsafe diver (note no mention of DIR in the conversation):

Message Display
From: <john.r.strohm@BIX.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:51:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: What is a "Stroke"?

>It is quite often that I see the word "Stroke" used
>on this list. If possible, I would like an accurate
>definition of the word "Stroke" as it applies on this list. From
>reading the many post containing the word
>"Stroke" I have come to the conclusion that it is a
>"bad thing". An accurate response would greatly help
>me in determining if I too am a "Stroke".

You can usually substitute the word "idiot" without much loss of meaning or
understanding. "Don't dive with strokes" then translates to "Don't dive
with idiots", and you get the idea.

More formally: A "stroke" is a clueless ****** who has no clue what he is
talking about, no clue that he has no clue, refuses to listen to the people
who DO have clues, and invariably gets his buddy killed in the water, not
himself. A stroke is a diving accident and subsequent body recovery
looking for a place to happen.

By the very act of recognizing that the term is not an accolade, and asking
the question "Am I a stroke?", you have started the process of making
yourself into a non-stroke. The next step is to start listening to the
people who know whereof they speak, and paying attention. (I started
hanging out here a little over two years ago. The education has been
priceless, enjoyable, and I've gotten to meet some great people I'd never
have met otherwise.)

Hope this helps.
--John

While GI3 has probably done more than anyone to popularize the term, it really doesn't seem accurate to define it as "anyone not DIR."

This one is fun: The Deco Stop

 

[Wetbones]

I am a fairly new diver and I just want to give my personal experience with conventional recreational diving and DIR diving. My wife and I got into diving about a year ago and started on a path of taking a bunch of classes through PADI, which at the time seemed like the agency to get training from. We took OW, AOW, Rescue and then some specialties. At the end of that we still didn't really feel all that comfortable and confident in the water. I thought my wife may give up diving all together-there was a weird anxiety before every dive and it was starting to make diving not so much fun, but more like a challenge. So to maybe head off losing my dive buddy, I started to look into the DIR philosophy. I thought she might respond really well to this "style" of diving-she likes structure and order, the idea that everything has a place. I talked with a UTD instructor in our area and he talked with both of us at length. We looked at the course materials. We signed up for the class at took it in late Feb. of this year. The training that we received so far surpassed everything that we were taught before. I really felt cheated by our previous instruction-why weren't we taught gas planning, propulsion techniques (more than one), doing skills while not sitting on the ocean floor, how to plan a dive, who is responsible for what, proper gas choices-the list is kind of endless. I also understood right away that this class was going to take a LOT more effort from us as students.

I am glad we did it for a lot of reasons. Yes, the training was rigorous and at times hard to watch (the video de-brief sessions), but I figure any hobby you have to go on life support to engage in probably deserves some pretty intense training. I like that they pushed us, made us learn some simple math, made us learn basic underwater communication, put our computers in gauge mode, etc and I also like that now when I dive with someone other than my wife I know they are on the same exact page as I am. My wife does not have the pre-dive anxiety that she used to, and the whole thing is a lot more fun now-for both of us. We look forward to diving instead of kind of fearing it.

Our instructors were the first DIR divers I had actually seen in the water. That made a huge impression on me. They were so calm, still and in control in the water. Elegant would be a good word to describe it. I had not ever seen anything like it before.

I don't understand some of the internet attitude that I see expressed by DIR practitioners-every single one that I have met in real life has been really kind, helpful, supportive and patient.

I don't really want to get into the whole gear thing. In the Essentials class, the only requirements were non-split fins (so you can learn all of the propulsion techniques-back kick), and a 5' or '7 primary hose.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

I am a fairly new diver and I just want to give my personal experience with conventional recreational diving and DIR diving. My wife and I got into diving about a year ago and started on a path of taking a bunch of classes through PADI, which at the time seemed like the agency to get training from. We took OW, AOW, Rescue and then some specialties. At the end of that we still didn't really feel all that comfortable and confident in the water. I thought my wife may give up diving all together-there was a weird anxiety before every dive and it was starting to make diving not so much fun, but more like a challenge. So to maybe head off losing my dive buddy, I started to look into the DIR philosophy. I thought she might respond really well to this "style" of diving-she likes structure and order, the idea that everything has a place. I talked with a UTD instructor in our area and he talked with both of us at length. We looked at the course materials. We signed up for the class at took it in late Feb. of this year. The training that we received so far surpassed everything that we were taught before. I really felt cheated by our previous instruction-why weren't we taught gas planning, propulsion techniques (more than one), doing skills while not sitting on the ocean floor, how to plan a dive, who is responsible for what, proper gas choices-the list is kind of endless. I also understood right away that this class was going to take a LOT more effort from us as students.

I am glad we did it for a lot of reasons. Yes, the training was rigorous and at times hard to watch (the video de-brief sessions), but I figure any hobby you have to go on life support to engage in probably deserves some pretty intense training. I like that they pushed us, made us learn some simple math, made us learn basic underwater communication, put our computers in gauge mode, etc and I also like that now when I dive with someone other than my wife I know they are on the same exact page as I am. My wife does not have the pre-dive anxiety that she used to, and the whole thing is a lot more fun now-for both of us. We look forward to diving instead of kind of fearing it.

Our instructors were the first DIR divers I had actually seen in the water. That made a huge impression on me. They were so calm, still and in control in the water. Elegant would be a good word to describe it. I had not ever seen anything like it before.

I don't understand some of the internet attitude that I see expressed by DIR practitioners-every single one that I have met in real life has been really kind, helpful, supportive and patient.

I don't really want to get into the whole gear thing. In the Essentials class, the only requirements were non-split fins (so you can learn all of the propulsion techniques-back kick), and a 5' or '7 primary hose.

This was a fantastic post, thank you. It ought to be a sticky!