In a silt-out, black-out or bubble-out (all of which commonly go along with situations that require air sharing) you should count on not being able to see. Knowing where equipment is by feel and having solid fool proof emergency procedures is what will get things done. The ability to see is often the first thing lost on a bad dive. Be ready for it.
What colors for purge buttons when donating from your mouth?
- Thread starter dlwalke
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Besides...when I donate a reg I hold it by the hose with the mouth piece facing the diver. They won't see the purge button/cover anyway.
Order of the rainbow. Red, orange, yellow. Even so, the two things I can usually see best on a diver near the limit of visibility are bright yellow fins (aka Twin Jets) and everybody's octo.
If you are holding the donated reg mouthpiece facing your buddy and they aren't taking it for some reason, would you strip the reg in their mouth and pop yours in?
And FTR, the R190 previously mentioned has yellow on the mouthpiece side as well.
Rachel
And FTR, the R190 previously mentioned has yellow on the mouthpiece side as well.
Rachel
That's one of those, "I'd have to be there", Questions.
If you strip the reg out of there mouth, and they freak and drown. You are in a whole lot of trouble.
Invoulantary manslaughter??? Maybe, maybe not. I think there is a good citizen law too. But it's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Best bet is to show them by purging the reg while they are watching you. So they can see there is air there. Stick the mouthpiece by there cheek and purge it. So they know there's air there.
But stripping it out if they aren't responding to you???? That's a call you'd have to make during the situation. Cause if they aren't responding and are looking at you.... They are already freaked out. But if they are definately out of air and it's a last resort. I'd have to try it.
The reason I brought that up is because the one time I've had someone donate a reg was a freeflow and I would have taken it if I could see it, I just couldn't see it for at least a few seconds. I felt tugging on the hose I was breathing from (it was my buddy's but that story has been told elsewhere) and I was clamped down pretty good because there was no way I was giving up the reg in my mouth. Everyone involved said they didn't touch the reg or the hose so I'm not sure what the tugging was. If someone had actually stripped the reg I think I really would have freaked out, having air is the only thing that kept me even moderately calm. A bigger, brighter octo would have alerted me much earlier what what was going on and what that diver was trying to do. The vis was so bad that the person donating couldn't see that I already had a donated reg in my mouth.
The whole thing just made me see the value of the yellow and how helpful that can be from the the perspective of someone who received the reg.
Rachel
The whole thing just made me see the value of the yellow and how helpful that can be from the the perspective of someone who received the reg.
Rachel
Don't take this the wrong way. But...
Practice your OOA drills. All the time. So you won't freak. If your buddy doesn't want to. Get a new buddy..
When you got that donated reg. You, or your buddy, could have shut off your tank valve so the free flowing reg wasn't flying around. Try to get your reg to work again. Then you'd of had your own. But I'd try to get the reg to stop freeflowing and the tank valve back on before you start your assent. At least get the freeflowing reg in your hand so you can control it. Have your octo in your mouth. Or donated in your mouth.
Don't freak, Don't freak, Don't freak.
I know, it's easy to say. But if you practice alot you'll be ready. And it won't scare you. Or I should say. You'll know what to do when it scares you.
Most all problems can be handled under water. The biggest problem is if you freak out.
There is other things that I wonder about. But the biggest thing is to be prepared for things.
A freeflowing reg will happen. Seen it lots. One reason I like the long hose also. If I move you don't feel it getting jerked around in your mouth. And I can get to your tank valve easy to shut it off and turn it on.
Practice your OOA drills. All the time. So you won't freak. If your buddy doesn't want to. Get a new buddy..
When you got that donated reg. You, or your buddy, could have shut off your tank valve so the free flowing reg wasn't flying around. Try to get your reg to work again. Then you'd of had your own. But I'd try to get the reg to stop freeflowing and the tank valve back on before you start your assent. At least get the freeflowing reg in your hand so you can control it. Have your octo in your mouth. Or donated in your mouth.
Don't freak, Don't freak, Don't freak.
I know, it's easy to say. But if you practice alot you'll be ready. And it won't scare you. Or I should say. You'll know what to do when it scares you.
Most all problems can be handled under water. The biggest problem is if you freak out.
There is other things that I wonder about. But the biggest thing is to be prepared for things.
A freeflowing reg will happen. Seen it lots. One reason I like the long hose also. If I move you don't feel it getting jerked around in your mouth. And I can get to your tank valve easy to shut it off and turn it on.
I don't take that the wrong way at all and I'm much better prepared for a freeflow if it happens again. It's hard to explain to someone what happens if a reg goes and how fast the vis goes all to heck. I now know that the drill for a tank shutdown needs to be incorporated into normal skills practice if you plan on diving cold water. I didn't realize how bad it would be so wasn't prepared for what happened. Now I know and I'm better for it, I could have shut down the tank but I was holding the alternate in my mouth with one hand and my air source (buddy) with the other. My buddy didn't know to shut down the tank, etc.
The yellow on the octo (which is how this thread started) did make a major difference to me at that time and I can't say for certainty that if I'm donating to someone else in a similar situation, I include extremely limited vis in that, that they'll automatically know what I'm doing to help them and that bright flash of yellow might make a lightbulb go off in their head like it did for me.
Following that logic, having a primary with a yellow faceplate might make a difference to someone who needs your air but can't see the black/gray/blue to know what's going on.
R
The yellow on the octo (which is how this thread started) did make a major difference to me at that time and I can't say for certainty that if I'm donating to someone else in a similar situation, I include extremely limited vis in that, that they'll automatically know what I'm doing to help them and that bright flash of yellow might make a lightbulb go off in their head like it did for me.
Following that logic, having a primary with a yellow faceplate might make a difference to someone who needs your air but can't see the black/gray/blue to know what's going on.
R
I wouldn't be my first choice but as some one said earlier it really depends on the situation. It also depends on who it is. Doing a cave dive with a regular buddy I wouldn't be in a hurry to donate because of a free flow. I would be there and ready but that's something a diver should be able to handle alone. Simply breath it until you switch to a redundant reg and shut down. I wouldn't step in unless something went wrong. It would just be too many spoons in the pot. On a recreational dive simply breath the free flowing reg and end the dive. Switch if you run out of air. We talked about this before and I guess it's ok to switch if you want but breathing the free flow while a calm controled switch is executed shouldn't be a problem. The point being a free flow should not resemble a fire drill. To deal with the bubbles simply tilt your head to the side. That way the bubble rise away without obstructing your view or flooding your mask. However whenever I recieve an attention signal (usually a light signal) I turn ready to donate.
With a student it's a little different. The key there is to step in and get control before things get to far out of hand. It's certainly easier said than done but that IS what instructors are suppose to be good at. That is having the foresight to avoid a problem and being able to deal with it if it does happen. I have only had two of my students panick and while both tried to take the express rout home I was able to control both ascents both for me and for them. I'm knocking on wood here because who knows what will happen tomarrow. But I'll tell you this...one of the main reasons my classes have gotten longer and more detailed is because I am determined to keep my good score.
Personally I have seen too many UW fire drills. Most were with some one elses students but a bunch were just divers who had a free flow or lost a mask or whatever and lost control. I don't mean to be overly critical but If I had a student do a rapid ascent from 80+ft because of a free flow my confidence would be shattered big time. I would take that as a personal failure on multiple levels and if I didn't feel I could prevent such a thing my teaching days would be over. While it might seem that these things are not totally preventable there are several steps (chances) in the process that should contribute to avoiding it. They are...
1, Past training....the diver should be prepared for the level of training they are entering.
2, Pre-assesment and remediation...this insures number one
3, Preperation...includes covering the bases in the current training. Learn one thing well before going on to the next thing that depends on mastery of the first
4, Control and response...If all the above fail the staff needs to be able, prepared and positioned in such a way as to be able to manage problems. Shooting to the surface with a student wouldn't qualify. Once the fire drill starts the outcome becomes less certain though. But...what about items 1-3? If they were taken care of the emergency likely would be just an inconvenience.
If divers were learning skills at 20 ft and instructors were seeing to the proper execution of the above points then we wouldn't see divers shooting out of the water to their wast all over the place. It would never, never happen with a student. We wouldn't have people talking about what color an alternate should be either I don't think.
First of all, this isn't about me, what happened to me, or the reactions be they proper or not by myself or anyone involved. I don't recall ever saying, "shot out of the water to my waist," so let's not get distracted.
I think what I've been trying to point out is that all the training in the world, the best buddy on the planet, and an absoutely perfect dive from your (the competent diver's) standpoint doesn't mean crap if you happen upon something unforeseen or someone swims up to you, up into you, crashes down on your head or otherwise makes contact that is having some sort of issue and needs air.
That individual is probably not privvy to your training methods and I'm guessing hasn't run OOA drills with you and perhaps not with anyone since certification. Now, given that set of circumstances, yellow="air for me" to someone that needs air. A yellow reg screams TAKE ME!! to that diver whether it be in your mouth or in your hand.
I don't know what OOA divers do when they approach a diver with air, I've never been one nor have I been approached by one. If they always grab the reg out of the mouth of the donating diver and they can always see clearly enough to accomplish this then I guess I'll just shut up and move on, but the reality is that at least once in my experience the yellow made a difference and I think it's something to consider.
That is all.
R
I think what I've been trying to point out is that all the training in the world, the best buddy on the planet, and an absoutely perfect dive from your (the competent diver's) standpoint doesn't mean crap if you happen upon something unforeseen or someone swims up to you, up into you, crashes down on your head or otherwise makes contact that is having some sort of issue and needs air.
That individual is probably not privvy to your training methods and I'm guessing hasn't run OOA drills with you and perhaps not with anyone since certification. Now, given that set of circumstances, yellow="air for me" to someone that needs air. A yellow reg screams TAKE ME!! to that diver whether it be in your mouth or in your hand.
I don't know what OOA divers do when they approach a diver with air, I've never been one nor have I been approached by one. If they always grab the reg out of the mouth of the donating diver and they can always see clearly enough to accomplish this then I guess I'll just shut up and move on, but the reality is that at least once in my experience the yellow made a difference and I think it's something to consider.
That is all.
R
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