whadayathink?

[deputydan1]

hmmmm......points well taken...

one thing, does fuel cost affect your boating??

-dan

 

[Nemrod]

"one thing, does fuel cost affect your boating??"

No, not really. I began downsizing my vehicles some time ago. My new Tacoma get's great mileage and pulls my Whaler with ease. The boat itself is very fuel efficient getting as much as 5.5 MPG.
I am a Geologist, used to work in the industry in a former career. Oil companies have similar profit ratios as do other corporations in other fields. In the late 80s I lost my position as did most of my collegues due to low cost of oil and gas. No one remembers that. I do. I of course had been fairly high up and accumulated quite a bit of stock in my former employer. Now that stock is ---well-----it has been very, very good to me. Thanks America, it is pay now or pay later and we chose as a nation in the 80s to pay later, punish the oil companies, discourage drilling, build no new refineries and now we are going to pay the cost.
As some one educated in the oil industry and knoweledgeable about the markets I expect prices to moderate in early 06.
There is historically a price rise in the summer then it falls until the holiday season and then rises again only to fall after New Year. This can be impacted of course by cold winters, storms and so on. One thing that pushes cost in the summer is stocking up heating oil supplies in the summer and utilities buying for the wimter whcih pushes prices. Now on top of that we have had two hurricanes impact our major refinery areas and as well some of our most prolific domestic oil producing areas. Further, tankers of imported oil cannot dock and offload due to the unstable weather so it is a triple whammy!
People should not panic and sell their boats and all that but think about driving a smaller vehicle at your next purchase. The long range push on prices are global and our using so much oil to run utilities hurts us here along with our not building infrastructure (refineries) as does having lost most of a full generartion of trained people, geologist, geophysict, engineers etc. We all became teachers, pilots, lawyers, doctors, bums and scubaholics and have no interest in returning to the industry even if we could. When I was in grad school their were 120 undergrads with declared geology majors and their were over 30 TA/GA grads. Now the school is still there but the Geology department is gone---no majors. Meanwhile my portfolio is extremely robust---please, buy more Hummers, large vehicles ROCK and make people so attractive! N

 

[matt_unique]

hmmmm......points well taken...

one thing, does fuel cost affect your boating??

-dan

If you can afford to buy a boat that uses an absurb amout of fuel you can afford the fuel

I can't imagine the fuel costs for some of the cigarette boaters with twin 350's and up...

--Matt

 

[Wildcard]

I read this earler and feel compeled to say something. I think your about to jump into a mess beyond belief. Leaving a boat in a slip sound easy but it is a nightmare. They leak, they sink, they rot away, anything metal will be eaten up even with zincs and cathodic protection. You must have redundant bilge systems. You must check the boat all the time. It will be broken into despite security. When you try to sell it you will loose your shorts in the deal. It must be hauled out and cleaned even if you use anti fouling paint.
Unless you use the boat nearly every day or it's just to big to trailer it's just not a good idea. If you insist on doing this Id advise starting with an older used boat in the 22-24 foot range for under 10K. Try that for a year or two and see if you realy are a boat guy. If you are you will haved learned enough to make the big jump and know what you need.
Many sayings about boats but my favorite is' The two happest days of a boat owners life are the day he buys his boat and the day he sells his boat."
Good luck!

 

[deputydan1]

hey guys...
wow...what a wealth of knowledge here...i appreciate all the comments very much so.

and yes, i am so exciting about this..has been my dream to get my own boat...but now i feel scared to! yikes!

i am looking into a sea ray, a 26' cuddy.....has a 7.4L motor....low hours....seems like a good boat....buying a used one makes more and more sense!

-dan

 

[matt_unique]

Sea Ray is the top rated cruiser brand (and generally most expensive). SR's are sharp boats with all the trimmings.

Wildcard described the worst case scenarios for sure.

You would not believe how much you learn from owning a boat. You also learn a system for your own convenience which will continue to evolve.

My first several seasons were at a mooring that cost $1000 a summer to rent. During the early and late season I rowed my dinghy 20 minutes one way from dock to boat. Two years ago I found a great deal and purchased my own mooring. I paid $750 for it delivered to include pennant lines. From there on out I need to service/inspect my mooring annually which I can do as a diver on my own time. I also found a better spot on shore to store my dinghy and purchased a 3.3 HP outboard which I use to power my dinghy and serve as an emergency kicker in my "big" boat if necessary. This little engine will move my 19' cuddy cabin better than headway speed. I also have Tow Boat US if I am too far to slow cruise with the kicker. Anyway...I went from paying $1000 a summer to paying $300 a summer for my dinghy storage, town taxes on the mooring, etc. If I knew then what I know now....

A boat in salt water will require regular attention. Fortunately not all boats leak, sink, or are broken into. The metal requires attention which includes zinc replacements every other season depending upon your boat. My boat sees only salt water and my zincs ($80 a set) last two long seasons (mid April - end October).

I am personally on the fence with used boats. For some I think it's a great deal. With something as safety dependant as a boat I am partial to brand new. I prefer to get a smaller well equipped boat than a larger used boat. If I were a marine mechanic I would be eating up used boat deals. Survey's are a must but they are not cheap. I paid $300 a pop for survey's back in 2000. I had three boats surveyed, all of which required a few thousand invested to be whipped into perfect shape. At that point I decided it was better for me to invest in a brand new boat out of the gate. I certainly have better experience to evaluate a used boat now but you still never know how it was treated or serviced. You would not know if the former owner changed the oil every three seasons for example. A surveyor would test for cylinder compression and such but something like that would not be evident.

--Matt

 

[cobaltblue]

Being a three boat and three marine business owner I hope to shed some light on this for you.

First, boats are expensive to own. You must maintain them, or pay someone to. (We do that, that's how I own three) You must store them, year round. Here in Michigan, I like to tell people it's about $200 per foot to keep a boat per year, if you don't trailer. Maybe a little less on the smaller stuff, under 25 feet. You also have to use them. None of the three of my boats get any better than 2 miles a gallon. The big one gets 1/2 mile a gallon.

Second, buy used. There might be a little more security in buying new but the 20 to 30 percent hit you'll take when you sign can pay for a few repairs. When buying used, GET IT SURVEYED and get a mechanical inspection from someone not related to the sale. Have a qualified technician do a leak down test instead of a compression test and also send out the oil for analysis. The leak down shouldn't be anymore than a compression test and a qualified tech can tell you alot more about the engine by doing one than a compression test. An oil analysis is usually only about $25 per engine and you can get a sample yourself and send it in. Ask your surveyor to do it and they'll think you know what your doing.

Boats are worth every penny if you use them and enjoy it. If you don't use it, it becomes a huge pain and expense.

Last, a couple of buying tips.

If you buy a Sea Ray, make the seller give it to you. Do a search on yachtworld.com and see why. Sea Ray has almost 70 percent market share and there are tons of them out there. Lots of people just want off them so don't pay too much.

A saltwater boat is worth 10 to 15 percent less than a fresh water boat. That's how the banks and the "blue books" look at it anyway.

Stick to quality boats even if you have to buy one a year or two older. They are easier to sell and will hold up better in the long run.

Buy a twin engine or diesel if your running offshore.

If your going to dive, make sure it has a good strong ladder and as little rear vinyl as possible. I'm in the process of repairing and drying my Cobalt after using it as a dive boat for only about a month. The interior got soggy, have to take it apart and dry it, and we bent the ladder. And Cobalts are extremely high quality.

Let me know if there is anyway I can help.

David

 

[deputydan1]

WOW!
ONCE AGAIN, much appreciated comments...

i have narrowed it down to 3:
1> 2001 maxum 2700scr cruiser.....7.4L MPI engine, clean.
2> 2005 four winns 268 vista.....LOVE this boat....pricey, but the guy REALLY want to sell it......
3> 2000 sea ray 26' overnighter....it's a cuddy cabin, but really clean.....
4> 2000 monterey 262.....about 360 hours, clean in and out....

i really love the four winns boat...but the price seems quite steep...it is practically brand new......

the other good contender is the sea ray....but i am worried that a cuddy may be too small?

thanks everyone!

-dan

ps> how do i get the insurance started? does the dealer do that? what can i expect to pay on a 28' foot boat?

pss> what about vessel assist? good idea? price?

TIA!

 

[matt_unique]

WOW!
ONCE AGAIN, much appreciated comments...

i have narrowed it down to 3:
1> 2001 maxum 2700scr cruiser.....7.4L MPI engine, clean.
2> 2005 four winns 268 vista.....LOVE this boat....pricey, but the guy REALLY want to sell it......
3> 2000 sea ray 26' overnighter....it's a cuddy cabin, but really clean.....
4> 2000 monterey 262.....about 360 hours, clean in and out....

i really love the four winns boat...but the price seems quite steep...it is practically brand new......

the other good contender is the sea ray....but i am worried that a cuddy may be too small?

thanks everyone!

-dan

ps> how do i get the insurance started? does the dealer do that? what can i expect to pay on a 28' foot boat?

pss> what about vessel assist? good idea? price?

TIA!

There are several marine insurance companies out there. Shop around for the best price. I use Zurich personally. The dealer will have suggestions for you but I suggest you do your homework for the best deal in addition to the dealer recommendations.

Do any of these boats have a closed fresh water cooling system? Just curious, many do not but it's a significant difference in terms of engine life, resale, etc. These systems need to be installed when they are new though. It is not recommended once it has been exposed to salt water.

Vessel Assist - Sea Tow - Tow Boat US - is a critical piece of safety gear in my opinion. It is small money for the benefit - I have the top level through Tow Boat US and it's $125 p/year. They cover out to 25 miles from the nearest Tow Boat location. (Make sure you research where you intend to cruise and the proximity a Tow Boat/Sea Tow location). Living on the East Coast this covers everywhere I cruise on my boat. To give you some perspective, it's a $300 minimum charge for them to come out to your boat - even if you're a mile from shore - without the policy.

I have a backup kicker engine and Tow Boat US for my boat. (Kicker engine also powers the dinghy).

Some other things to consider...you will need lot's of safety and other gear for your boat...some of which is USCG required. Here is a link that may help: http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/fedreqs/equipment.htm

You are looking at VHF, fire extinguiser, life jackets, throwable life jacket, dock lines, fenders, bottom paint, gull deterrent, signal devices, nautical charts, spare parts and tools, etc., etc., etc., etc. Though buying used you may have all this come with the boat. If not, keep in mind the cost is relatively significant.

--Matt

 

[deputydan1]

great info, matt...thanks much.

but do you know how much insurance would be?? say a new 28' cruiser?

-dan