Wetsuit advice: Freediving vs. scuba suits, thickness, temperatures

[2airishuman]

I'm planning on diving local Minnesota lakes as soon as the ice is out.

For a variety of reasons, I don't want to make a transition to drysuits at this time. That's not the point of this thread, but since people will ask, among the reasons are: a) cost, b) the likely need for a custom suit given my unusually long arms, c) the difficulty of getting a suit purchased and training completed by the time the relatively short spring dive window opens (viz deteriorates quickly here), d) the ongoing maintenance, fiddling, and dive cancellations inherent in diving dry (no one ever cancels a wet suit dive because of a leak or wrist seal problem), e) the fact that I am not currently planning any deep dives or dives in extremely cold water, f) I am gradually losing weight right now, and don't want to have to alter or replace a drysuit as a result.

At some future point I'll probably get a drysuit, because I want to dive wrecks in Lake Superior, and that's the best way to do it. But not now.

My current wetsuit is a Neosport 3/2mm jumpsuit in 3XL. It was inexpensive to purchase and fits me well, and I find it abundantly comfortable in 72 degree water without gloves or a hood. In general I don't get cold easily, and can recognize my limits after decades of living, motorcycling, skiing, and generally being outside in this climate.

I'm considering these alternatives:

1) The same wetsuit in 7mm/5mm, about $140. (The same suit is also available entirely in 5mm for about $100)

2) An open-cell, two piece spearfishing-oriented wetsuit, in either 5mm or 7mm, with an attached hood. Mako and most other spearfishing suppliers don't have wetsuits in my size, which limits my choices. About $290

3) The Hollis Neotek Semi Dry 8/7/6, with attached hood.

I'm trying to cover the range from as cold of water as is feasible to dive wet, say, 40 degrees, up to the 70 degrees or so where I can use my existing 3/2 suit. I'm thinking that I may need two more wetsuits to do this.

What advice would you offer on an wetsuit strategy?

 

[ronscuba]

You say you are gradually losing weight.

Get a hooded vest to wear under your existing suit. If you continue to lose weight, once you level out, buy a new suit and wear the hooded vest over the new suit.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

If you are going to scuba below the thermocline, nothing less than 7 mm is going to suffice.

In my opinion (and with some considerable experience) a 2 piece freedive suit is the warmest option. I would wear wool socks under my dive boots, 3 finger mittens if the water is below 45 degrees.

If my recollection is correct neosport is the cheap model of Henederson suits. I had one once and the rubber was terrible, became compressed and wrinkled after just several days of diving - had to return it. The worst suit i have had and I have had probably over 40 wetsuits.

If you need a custom suit and can wait several weeks, check out Elios wetsuits - for a freedive type suit. They have a bewildering selection of suits and neoprene choices. I had a 7 mm medium density Heiwaa ??? not sure of the name of rubber and it was very warm, a heavy rubber, not too stretchy - great quality... custom made. They do excellent work and the prices are reasonable for custom. The quality of rubber is nothing like a cheap Henderson.

99.95% of the US scuba divers never heard of this foreign custom suit maker. Eliossub - Welcome to Eliossub

Their website was not so easy to use, as I recall.

 

[2airishuman]

It isn't so much that I want to go below the thermocline -- there usually isn't much to see except in the Great Lakes -- it's that surface temperatures are low here part of the year. The graph above shows surface temperatures for Mille Lacs, which is on the large size for area lakes but not unusual for temperature. So in May temperatures might be anywhere between 45-60 degrees at the surface, and that's when the viz is best.

I sent a note to Elios. They don't have any prices on their web site, so I'll wait to hear.

DD I guess the question I still have is whether a 7mm alone will suffice or if I will also need an intermediate weight suit.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

You need to consider depth as well. If you are diving 10 or 20 feet, the suit compression is not so much and you will retain a good bit of insulation value. If you are diving over 60 feet - then it becomes an issue.

To be honest, diving 40 degree water below 80 or 100 ft is freaking COLD, in my book. You would be very uncomfortable in a 7 mm freedive suit in shallow water at temperatures over 75 degrees or so. You can remove the hood and let water in, but there are limits to the temperature range for any suit - between the full 3mm jump suit and a 7 mm suit, you should be able to handle most any temperatures.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I'm currently using a Yazbeck two piece freediving suit, 7mm, attached hood, thin beaver tail, skin in - needs to be lubed up to get in, in 48 to 54 degree water year around, down to about 60 feet, sometimes 80. At 80 it gets cold, at 50-60 I can do a whole dive and I'll be cool but won't be freezing my ass off. If I tried to do 100 for more than a few minutes I'd be freezing my ass off for sure. For anything deep for any amount of time in temps below 60 really requires a drysuit to be warm. Warm is also safe.
I've also had a lot of wetsuits and remember some cheapies that I got really cheap on sale. Not even worth the time to put them on. After one dive I realize they're crap and it was a total waste of money.
A good freediving suit will be well worth it...for moderate depths and not super freezing water.

 

[Bob DBF]

I find that my 7mm farmer john works in a larger range if tempatures because I can run the zipper down on the jacket to cool down in warmer water, likes trips to SoCal. I always thought I would buy a 5 or 3mm farmer john to mix and match tops or bottoms for warmer temps.


Bob

 

[tbone1004]

if your body is still changing, I'd recommend buying as cheap as possible until it is done. That 5mm for $100 if you size it right to where it can go under or over the 3/2 will be a good option

 

[2airishuman]

if your body is still changing, I'd recommend buying as cheap as possible until it is done. That 5mm for $100 if you size it right to where it can go under or over the 3/2 will be a good option

To be clear, this is a minor change. I'm presently at 245 pounds and I'm not going to let my weight get below 220. Something fairly stretchy, like a freedive wetsuit, should be able to accommodate that, while a trilam drysuit probably will not, particularly if it already has to accommodate a range of undergarments. That's my sense of it, at least. In a wetsuit that weight change is a difference of slightly less than one size, 3XL -> 2XL, depending on manufacturer.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

One thing you may want to consider is that not all freedive suits are cut the same.
Most freedive suits are cut to typical European standards which means for skinny guys with slight builds. However there are some companies that have caught on to the typical "American" build which tends to be a little larger. When I went to try on suits at the freediveshop.com physical location in Sacramento the Yazbeck was one that fit me well. Many of them in the same size were very tight in the chest and arms and were also short. At 6'-4" and 225 I don't always have an easy time. The size I got was 60cm which is what they call 3XL. I could use another 2" added onto the legs but the rest is fine.

But 2XL in a regular scuba suit by like Harvey's let's say, I float in the waist and they are much wider overall but the hight is OK. But If I was to go to an XL in the Harvey's the body would fit Okay but it would be way too short.
So my experience is that freedive suits tend to run small, and skinny in the upper body.

BTW, Picasso's tend to run really small in the chest and arms. Those Spaniards must not lift weights much.

All this is one reason why I have so many custom built suits.