Weight

[chffn1975]

To all instructors and those knowledgable,

I did the first day of my OW check out dives today. I was given nearly 50 lbs of weight. I weigh 230lbs was wearing a 7mm farmer john and again it was my first ow dive. Does this sound excessive? do you need any other info to give an opinion or is this something that is individual and needs to be assesed in every situation.

Thanks for any imput you can give.

 

[rollerboi]

If you think you were overweighted, you probably were. What kind of water?

 

[PvtStash]

30 and still have been overweight.

sounds overweight by at least 20... even with the needing a lil' more in saltwater thing...

I'm 6' 3" 264lbs, diving w/ steel 80 and a 7-mil 1 piece an hood/gloves I trim out real nice w/ 16lbs. (freshwater)

 

[spectrum]

To all instructors and those knowledgable,

I did the first day of my OW check out dives today. I was given nearly 50 lbs of weight. I weigh 230lbs was wearing a 7mm farmer john and again it was my first ow dive. Does this sound excessive? do you need any other info to give an opinion or is this something that is individual and needs to be assesed in every situation.

Thanks for any imput you can give.

The statement that you were "given" 50 pounds is alarming in itself. Before putting a diver into open water an objective weight check should be done in confined water and you should arrive having some idea what you need and where you will distribute it.

Your personal physique, the cylinder you use and whether it was fresh or salt water are a few major considerations. Even the condition of the 7mm F.J. will have a bearing.

Shooting from the hip I will suggest that it was excessive by 15-20 pounds but that's just a shot in the dark based on limited info. The most important piece of info is what happens when you check it in the water.

Pete

 

[TSandM]

As Pete says, the key to figuring out weighting is a weight check. If you have another pool session, you can easily play with this there -- Figure you will need to increase the TOTAL weight of diver and gear by about 2.5% when you move into salt water. (So if you and your gear are about 300 lbs total, you would add about 8 lbs for salt water.)

It is quite common to overweight new divers, so that they can remain stable on the bottom to perform their skills. But I've never heard of anybody requiring 50 lbs of weight, not even here in Puget Sound in a dry suit. I would definitely ask to check it before diving that heavy again; being severely overweighted means you have to put too much air in the BC to get off the bottom, which makes you extremely unstable in the water column, especially in the shallow depths used for OW diving.

 

[S. starfish]

Holy Crap. 50lbs?

Being a year-round drysuit diver my knowledge of wetsuits is fairly shaky, but I think a new (with arms, not a john) 7mm suit is about 20lbs positive at the surface, if you're diving with an AL80 for a tank, which you probably are, those are about 4lbs positive when completely empty, so that's 24lbs right there. Let's be generous and say that your BCD, when empty is 5lbs positive. That makes for a grand total of 29lbs required to keep your equipment from floating to the surface at the end of a dive, although considering you're in a rental suit and your BCD probably isn't 5lbs positive, its probably not that much. What ever weight you need to add after that depends on how much you yourself float, which is depends quite a bit on how you're put together. If you have a lot of body fat, or are just not a dense person you'll probably need a bit more. If you've got a lot of muscles, big bones or whatever you may be able to actually take some of that weight off. If you happen to be 21lbs positive, I wouldn't worry too much about drowning.

Next time out insist on trying 30-35lbs if you're not so fit, less if you are. If you have the option to, bleed your tank down to about 500 psi and see if you can still sink. If you sink quickly, you need to ditch more weight, if you sink very slowly you're pretty close and if you pop up to the surface then add a few pounds. DO NOT do this on your own, accidents can happen even in shallow water.

A couple of tips (even though you didn't ask for them) for the next time you're out:
1) Watch your breathing. A lot of new hold their breath underwater without realizing it. Are they stupid or did they not pay attention to that part of class? No, they're just concentrating really hard on diving. Sometimes people hold their breath while starting the descent. They don't realise they're doing it, they're just a bit nervous or excited. SO watch your breathing, I know that there are about a million other things to concentrate on as well, but seriously, just spend a few minuted getting worked into a nice rhythm, things will be easier and you'l be able to shed some weight. Exhale to descend.

2) Pay attention to your fins. I have noticed that many people absentmindedly fin while trying to descend. If your instructor doesn't catch this they'll probably think you're a floaty person and slap some more weight on you until you sink. This can be dangerous. Cross your fins if you have to. Also, watch that you're not pointed towards the surface while you're finning underwater, for much of the same reasons.

There should be a section in your Open Water manual on checking for proper weighting, if you decide to try this out keep those two tips in mind.

I wish you the best of luck with your diving. If they try and send you out with 50lbs again just tell them that you thought that was too much, that ascending last time was harder than you thought it should be and that you thought the BCD has having trouble floating you at the surface, they'll probably listen.

 

[S. starfish]

I'd just like to add an example of how buoyancy and weighting really depends on physiology.
Take two real live people, my girlfriend and myself.
She is 5'6 (I think, close to that anyway) and 105lbs.
I am 6'1 and 205lbs.
The majority of formulas for figuring out weight that I've read say to take 10% of your body weight and add X amount for whatever exposure gear you're wearing. So by that logic I should need about 10lbs more weight than her when we dive.

In the pool we did an experiment, she wore a bathing suit, I wore a 2mm shorty, we both exhaled. The end result was that she floated with her chin out of the water and I sank to the bottom, stayed there and walked around for a while. As you may suspect I take less weight when diving even though we both have the same exposure gear. So those formulas are pretty much rubbish if you ask me.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Yes, 50 lbs. of lead is too much weight.

If you do a proper weight check (as others have suggested on this thread), you'll find that you're overweighted. Please ask your instructor to help you do this before the end of your class. With the correct amount of weight, you'll find that your dive experience will be more relaxing and comfortable. You'll expend less energy while finning underwater. It will also be easier to achieve the proper horizontal trim. Lastly, you won't have to buy as much lead weight -- and that stuff can get pricey! Have fun and dive safe.

 

[twinkles]

Let me just observe, he said "nearly 50 lbs"

I personally am prone to exageration, and if you hear me say "almost" "nearly" "essentially" and the like, pretty good guess it is an exageration.

I would tend to agree, 50 lbs even on a 230 lbs. guy in a 7 mil farmer john does sound like a lot.

But on the other hand, 14 mils of neoprene on the torso, and potentially a lot of blubber on a 230 pound guy (he didn't claim to be 6'2" and solid muscle), with a discount for exageration, and a bit of nubbie nervous finning, and maybe this isn't quite as wackie as it sound.

Don't get me wrong, I am a 6'1" male who uses 8 lbs with my 3 mil. I am all in favor or as little weight as possible. I haven't experiemented with a 7 mil farmer john, but 30 lbs in salt water doesn't necessarily strike me as wacko.

 

[don Francisco]

Yes 50# SEEMS really high. I weigh 195 and with a 7&7 John & Jacket use 26#s. Allowing that I'm fairly dense and weight for the exposure suit only, and for your added body weight, and a noobie factor of a few #s, I'd make a crapshoot guess at 30-35 pounds. A few #s less if you had a steel tank.

But who knows? After dragging 50# down the beach & out into the water, I might be breathing so hard that I'd need that much weight after all.

The real test of correct weighting is how things went on the dive. Did you do a weight check at the start of the dive? Could you float with little or no air in your BC? When you started your dive did you drop like a rock or just kinda float down slowly?

Without knowing the answers to the those questions, I couldn't in all fairness criticize your instructor. I join the others who suggest a weight test on or before your next dive. Also remember that after adjusting weight on the surface you might need a few extra pounds to compensate for the noobie factor.

Good luck, let us know where you end up after the weight check.