Weight integration?

[TravisT]

Hey guys,
yes, i've been spewing these newbie topics all over the place trying to learn more about the world of SCUBA. Anyhow, I was talking with my instructor the other day who encourages purchasing a weight belt over having a weight integrated BC. He says it's easier, in most cases, to drop a weight belt rather than drop weight from a BC.

With that said, I guess I'm likely to get into and more accustomed to that type of thinking since I'll be taking my class that way...

What are the benefits to having weight integration over a weight belt? Also, i'm slim and tall and dense as a rock so I doubt i'll need much weight... but assuming I do need some, are there any top of the line BC's that I can save my money on that don't have that feature (assuming I won't be using it) but have the other bells and whistles to make it a great BC for something above 'entry-level' quality?

Any suggestions would be great and preferrebly ones that you guys have tested out as I would like to test out some of your recommendations before purchasing.

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

Any suggestions would be great....

Before everyone starts screaming about how you should be using the tediously ponderous search functionality, let me suggest you enlighten us on why you are learning to dive, what you hope to get out of diving, who you plan to dive with (who you are taking the class for), and how much road time you plan to spend at the ocean vs. diving in Oklahoma lakes and quarries.

I understand the desire to research fully this thing you're getting into next week, I know what you are going through to some extent talking to the dive shop guy and getting some questionable, unclear maybe is better, answers, and I hope you can appreciate the many facets of diving that are undertaken across the globe on a daily basis by the user community at Scubaboard.

You want suggestions Travis? You're going to get plenty of them, everyone more adamant than the last. You probably know this already, you some kind of closet troll trying to cause a ruckus?

Weight integrated bcs are great. You have two little pouches that you put your weight in, you can load them into the rig before you put it on so it's all one "integrated" piece. If you're having trouble floating at the surface and buoyancy compensator issues they pull right out with little handles and fall away ensuring your positive attitude (Dive words, doesn't mean you'll be enjoying it). They're simplistic, nearly any weight on the market today can be placed inside of one of those pouches from 5# plates to 10# soft weights sometimes, and most of the newer ones will handle the amounts of weight cold water and drysuit divers require.

But, they are spendy, maybe no moreso than a bc and weightbelt depending on which belt you want. These can run $200+. Sometimes the weight is too high in the body and you wind up swimming with your head down, this can be tricky if you're new, or a drysuit diver, or especially new to a drysuit. They can be bulky, regular bcs can be bulky too. Tech divers, and those who hope to be tech divers, and others who like the streamline effect of a steel plate just run 2" webbing through slots on one and strap it to themselves around each limb and under the crotch.

I have dove both integrated and weight belt style bcs as well as the steel plate method, they all accomplish the same basic thing as well as the other, they strap the kit all together to the diver and they provide a diver-manageable air bubble that is manipulated to achieve neutral buoyancy. The additional benefits and features of one method over the other largely depends on what your additional requirements are for the equipment.

Chris
Redeemed Okie

 

[MechDiver]

Before everyone starts screaming about how you should be using the tediously ponderous search functionality

::grumble::

 

[MechDiver]

He says it's easier, in most cases, to drop a weight belt rather than drop weight from a BC.

I wouldn't agree with that. Too broad a statement.

Also, i'm slim and tall and dense as a rock so I doubt i'll need much weight

You may have a problem keeping a weight belt in place then. I've seen that happen. If so, you could use the DUI harness style, or something similiar.

Although I agree with CD on your zeal, I think you really need to get in the water with the equipment and get a general idea what is going to work for you. Both the WI and weight belts have their advantages/disadvantages, and you may or may not be able to try each for your classes. But, there is only so much decision making you can do without actual trial and error in the water.

MD

 

[TravisT]

Before everyone starts screaming about how you should be using the tediously ponderous search functionality, let me suggest you enlighten us on why you are learning to dive, what you hope to get out of diving, who you plan to dive with (who you are taking the class for), and how much road time you plan to spend at the ocean vs. diving in Oklahoma lakes and quarries.

Sorry if I wasn't specific enough. To be honest, I recently gathered the interest. I went to Florida about 6 weeks ago and was snorkeling in Blue Springs. I saw some SCUBA divers there and it sparked an interest. I've always been somewhat facinated by the idea but never really had seen anyone do it first hand and my dad had done it a long time ago but was never certified and had always carried an interest in him and his 'boys' to go get certified with him.

As far as doing much traveling, it will be quite limited. Probably once a year, if that. I expect myself to go SCUBA diving nearly every other week here. Sometimes going out 300-400 miles and staying overnight at areas where nice water might be.

Eventually, and what sounds really cool to me, would be to do spearfishing of some of this freshwater fish. I know there is a large community for it here in Oklahoma and I plan to begin participating after getting some regular dives under my belt and gain some experience/confidence.

All of my dives would be in warmer water with a 5mil wet suit.

I understand the desire to research fully this thing you're getting into next week, I know what you are going through to some extent talking to the dive shop guy and getting some questionable, unclear maybe is better, answers, and I hope you can appreciate the many facets of diving that are undertaken across the globe on a daily basis by the user community at Scubaboard.

This is why I ask here. I feel I can gather some great opinions and a good idea of what kind of equipment I should be testing out. This place also gives me some good ideas of what I need to be looking for in my equipment, which is what this thread was about, although apparently I wasn't specific enough for what my uses would be.

You want suggestions Travis? You're going to get plenty of them, everyone more adamant than the last. You probably know this already, you some kind of closet troll trying to cause a ruckus?

I apologize if my questions make you upset. My attempts arn't to make people argue. I'm more questioning those who have more experience than myself for the sake of learning, nothing else.

Weight integrated bcs are great. You have two little pouches that you put your weight in, you can load them into the rig before you put it on so it's all one "integrated" piece. If you're having trouble floating at the surface and buoyancy compensator issues they pull right out with little handles and fall away ensuring your positive attitude (Dive words, doesn't mean you'll be enjoying it). They're simplistic, nearly any weight on the market today can be placed inside of one of those pouches from 5# plates to 10# soft weights sometimes, and most of the newer ones will handle the amounts of weight cold water and drysuit divers require.

But, they are spendy, maybe no moreso than a bc and weightbelt depending on which belt you want. These can run $200+. Sometimes the weight is too high in the body and you wind up swimming with your head down, this can be tricky if you're new, or a drysuit diver, or especially new to a drysuit. They can be bulky, regular bcs can be bulky too. Tech divers, and those who hope to be tech divers, and others who like the streamline effect of a steel plate just run 2" webbing through slots on one and strap it to themselves around each limb and under the crotch.

We were planning on purchasing some belts from the LDS that had small pouches on them. It seemed pretty effecient for just strapping that around you. But I was looking for your opinion and I'm glad you gave it to me.

I have dove both integrated and weight belt style bcs as well as the steel plate method, they all accomplish the same basic thing as well as the other, they strap the kit all together to the diver and they provide a diver-manageable air bubble that is manipulated to achieve neutral buoyancy. The additional benefits and features of one method over the other largely depends on what your additional requirements are for the equipment.

Chris
Redeemed Okie

Hopefully I gave you a good idea of what I intend to be doing with the equipment, lots of casual recreational diving to start out with and hopefully some spierfishing to sum it up in a nutshell. Again, I have purchased a 5mil wetsuit for the warmer water around here in Oklahoma.

 

[IndigoBlue]

I can only think of two occasions when integrated weights would not come in handy.

One is when you dive in warm water in the tropics. In that case, a weight belt is fine, because it would only have around 10 or so lbs on it anyway.

The other is for twin-tank technical diving, when your weight belt only weights about 10 lbs as well, because the rest of your gear is so heavy already, especially if your steel twin tanks are attached to a steel backplate.

That leads me as always to my first general rule about weighting: That your first 10 lbs should be on a weight belt. Easy to reach, easy to ditch, not bad on your lower back.

My next general rule is that you should wear a drysuit, if you need exposure protection more than a 3mm wetsuit.

My third general rule of weighting is that if you need more than 10 lbs, then you should wear the rest of the weight on an integrated B/C (back inflation).

Anyone with a thick wetsuit (7mm or more) should not take this advice, and in my opinion should not be scuba diving either.

 

[IndigoBlue]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CD_in_Chitown
Before everyone starts screaming about how you should be using the tediously ponderous search functionality

::grumble::

too funny!!!

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

I apologize if my questions make you upset.

Not at all, you misunderstand me. You are going to hear about the wonderful simplicity of the weight integrated bc from about 12% of the users responding here on SB, you are going to hear the horrifying nightmare of weight integrated bcs from probably 30% of respondents, a good 18% of users are going to ask you to please search for similar threads (3% of those won't be polite at all), you are going to get a large number of "BCs are stoopid, get a bp/wings", and you're going to get 5% +/- 8% of "I like taffy" and other such blather.

None of that means a hill of beans to a guy who hasn't yet had the opportunity to dive under water wearing an upside down bowl aquarium on his head, let alone various types of gear. And it's nearly impossible for me to suggest anything without understanding what you want to do.

Weight integrated BCs are nice all around rigs, usually have a couple of cool pockets for someone who might carry fishing supplies in addition to regular diving kit, and come in a variety of inflation models, which you'll learn about in class. (Rear Inflation, Side Inflation, etc)

Two truths you'll hear from 75-90% of divers in general; Never take anything the dive shop guy says at face value (Unless he's your instructor and your in class, then maybe half the time, mostly the stuff about diving, not so much about which gear is best. He'll think the gear he sells is best, duh, anyone that can charge what they do for a mask without laughing isn't necessarily on your side.)

and

You'll never have enough gear.

CD

 

[Ber Rabbit]

We were planning on purchasing some belts from the LDS that had small pouches on them. It seemed pretty effecient for just strapping that around you. But I was looking for your opinion and I'm glad you gave it to me.

Just a quick tip about those pouch belts. Make sure they will hold enough weight to offset the positive buoyancy of your 5 mil wetsuit. Personally I don't like them because I have a small waist and I run out of room before I get enough lead in them to sink my cold water gear. You are going to want to work with your "trim" as you learn to dive and these belts don't leave a lot of room for getting your lead positioned exactly where you want it (this can really depend on how you're built though). The regular webbing weight belts are good for cold water because you can put some of your lead forward of your hips and some on your back on either side of your tank to adjust your trim. I have a harness weight belt that I use with my drysuit and I love it, the weight is off of my back and the air bubble in the suit can easily move from my feet to the exhaust valve on my arm. My instructor has recently switched to weight integrated and loves it. Just remember when you're taking your tank off that the bc is going to be REALLY heavy if you're diving cold water and you didn't take the weights out before removing the bc.

Everyone has a different opinion and different experiences with each kind of equipment. The best way to choose gear is to try it a few times and figure out what you like and don't like about it then see which best fits your body and your needs.

Good luck!
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[verona]

I use integrated and a belt because I dive cold water. Integrated does allow a better trim by assisting me be more horizontal than if I wear everything on the belt. I started off with all the weight on belt because I didn'tr have an integrated BC. In warm water and 3 mm I have worn belt up till now but that is going to change with my next trip when I will use integrated and see what it feels like. It does feel a bit odd in the pool first time without a belt, though! I didn't actively buy a BC with integrated weights but the one that fitted me best happened to have integrated weights. So I use them when i think it's appropriate. Just because you have integrated pockets doesn;t mean you have to use them but they are a useful option to have. Also as you develop as a diver your preferences may change, so bear that in mind, too.