Wanting to dive in Fiji after OW, but want an instructor with me

[yle]

Understand where you are coming from- which is exactly my point, which is why I’ve booked a dive with an instructor just for me.
Not a deep or complicated or even slightly taxing dive, but just some more time in the water, with an instructor to feel more comfortable and get used to all the new skills

You're fine, go enjoy yourself. You're doing exactly what you should, and I'm sure you'll have a great time on the dives you've planned. Years from now, after you've had countless dive adventures, you'll be able to offer advice, based on your experience, to new divers you meet and they'll be better off for it.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

This reminds me of what I consider to be one of my more egregious standards violations from my early days as an instructor.

I was teaching at a shop that had some really poorly maintained gear. The regs were super hard to breath, which just increased the stress level of the open water students.

I had one student who was so freaked out about taking off her mask in the open water as she had so much difficultly breathing from her reg (she did panic once after not properly clearing her reg as she wound up with water in her mouth. She tried to shoot to the surface. Because it was 1:1, I just slowed her down and made sure she was exhaling) so I donated my primary for her to use (yes, this was from the days I taught on the knees too).

Because I had good regs that were serviced properly, she was much more comfortable and was able to complete the skill,

I was a PADI Instructor at the time, and PADI defines skills mastery as fluidly, comfortably, and repeatedly.

I certified her without meeting the definition of mastery, so a clear standards violation (clear to me now, though a CD did say the performance requirements were met).

@Brie, I’m thinking you didn’t quite meet the definition of mastery. I’d suggest working with an instructor prior to your trip till you are comfortable doing it, so you can focus on having fun diving, instead of addressing an issue that should have been covered in your open water course.

 

[TMHeimer]

This reminds me of what I consider to be one of my more egregious standards violations from my early days as an instructor.

I was teaching at a shop that had some really poorly maintained gear. The regs were super hard to breath, which just increased the stress level of the open water students.

I had one student who was so freaked out about taking off her mask in the open water as she had so much difficultly breathing from her reg (she did panic once after not properly clearing her reg as she wound up with water in her mouth. She tried to shoot to the surface. Because it was 1:1, I just slowed her down and made sure she was exhaling) so I donated my primary for her to use (yes, this was from the days I taught on the knees too).

Because I had good regs that were serviced properly, she was much more comfortable and was able to complete the skill,

I was a PADI Instructor at the time, and PADI defines skills mastery as fluidly, comfortably, and repeatedly.

I certified her without meeting the definition of mastery, so a clear standards violation (clear to me now, though a CD did say the performance requirements were met).


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You did a good job obviously. Even that definition of mastery can be debated a little--how many time is "repeatedly"? But maybe I'm splitting hairs. I KNOW doing it once and ticking the box is not mastery, and how many times have we all seen that?
P.S.--I like your "knees" comment. How were you possibly able to do that when you were taught it on your knees....?

 

[TMHeimer]

Click to expand previous post for my reply. Hate when that happens.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@TMHeimer,

I think the number of times a skill has to be repeated varies. Reg recovery and clear if comfortable and fluid can be done once. If not, repeat it until you get 3 successive executions. I like to do multiple mask removals and clears as it is stressful, especially in cold water.

With this particular student, we were right shoulder to right shoulder.

I will add that I think dive shops that provide cheap gear shoot themselves in the foot. I dove with one of my students after the class and I put him in my bp/w and Apex xtx50 regs. I was curious as how he liked the bp/w compared to the jacket style bcd. He was so amazed with how comfortably he was able to breath.

Btw, all my students whom I taught on the knees get free remedial training to bring them up to my current standards.

I am hoping one day(and people will say I need to either stop forgetting to take my meds or stop taking so many) that the entire industry will require students to be taught midwater and trim. But I won’t hold my breath.

 

[TMHeimer]

@TMHeimer,

I think the number of times a skill has to be repeated varies. Reg recovery and clear if comfortable and fluid can be done once. If not, repeat it until you get 3 successive executions. I like to do multiple mask removals and clears as it is stressful, especially in cold water.

With this particular student, we were right shoulder to right shoulder.

I will add that I think dive shops that provide cheap gear shoot themselves in the foot. I dove with one of my students after the class and I put him in my bp/w and Apex xtx50 regs. I was curious as how he liked the bp/w compared to the jacket style bcd. He was so amazed with how comfortably he was able to breath.

Btw, all my students whom I taught on the knees get free remedial training to bring them up to my current standards.

I am hoping one day(and people will say I need to either stop forgetting to take my meds or stop taking so many) that the entire industry will require students to be taught midwater and trim. But I won’t hold my breath.

If every instructor had certain skills repeated a logical number of times as you do, there would be more safe divers.
Am curious about your remedial neutral training. Do you find that knee-trained divers are substandard when it comes to say, retrieving a reg. or mask clearing while horizontal? Or do you find that it's general buoyancy/trim that may suck? Or a bit of both?

 

[yle]

@Brie, I’m thinking you didn’t quite meet the definition of mastery. I’d suggest working with an instructor prior to your trip till you are comfortable doing it, so you can focus on having fun diving, instead of addressing an issue that should have been covered in your open water course.

I think you're reading waaaay too much into her initial post. What she said was simply that she was one day away from finishing her OW course and that she was a little "anxious" about the mask removal skills.

This didn't sound to me like someone that is underprepared... it sounds like someone who is excited to finish their course and book their next dive adventure. The point of her post was to ask our opinion of her hiring a personal DM for her very first dive trip. I got the impression she's a very excited and conservative new diver.

Note that her follow-up post was not about any problems she had with her class... it was about how she's already booked her dive trip and seems pretty excited about it. I'm willing to bet she'll have plenty of fun diving in Fiji and in the process convince herself that her training was just fine.

 

[Wingy]

Who ever you book with to dive in Fiji will have staff in the water with you - no need to start stressing about finding a private instructor. Just let the op know you're new and ask if you can be buddies with the DM.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Do you find that knee-trained divers are substandard when it comes to say, retrieving a reg. or mask clearing while horizontal?

Not retrieving a reg as it is hanging below you, but clearing a mask, I tend to see a loss of depth control..

Or do you find that it's general buoyancy/trim that may suck? Or a bit of both?

A bit of both. General buoyancy sucks. I can summarize it as students on their first dive after a course, if they were taught on their knees, tend to cork/crater. If taught midwater, they don't.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I think you're reading waaaay too much into her initial post. What she said was simply that she was one day away from finishing her OW course and that she was a little "anxious" about the mask removal skills.

Maybe. But someone to post about a "little" of something usually isn't just a little. But I don't care to argue as it is a white Christmas Eve where I am right now.