Vortex revisited

[udtfire]

ok ill say it lock the gate to that hole it is not worth it .that was my recomendation after the search was completed. There is no need to allow anyone else to push a search back in that cave system . bens equipment and training screams stupid and I am not willing to risk the death of a real caver or wantabe to ease the suffering of a father who has been offered all the sympathy of this industry and the efforts of many great people at no cost to him and accepted the help but refuses the facts presented to him. He values the body ( death certificate)of his son over the life of a diver tell him to go get the training spend a few years gaining experience and go diving. if he wants to spend money to make himself feel better pay the divers that already searched and risked there lives and families( at no cost to bens family) as well. I dont want to come off as uncaring but there comes a time to move on and we have reached it. IF you allowed edd and others to go into that enviroment and then reject their findings despite the years of training knowledge and experience brought to the table. then you are in a grief,greed or emotional funk that you need professional help with. sorry for the harsh tone but a divers life is worth a lot to me.

 

[Hetland]

Just searching around on the internet about the Vortex subject and this is what I found:
www2.jcfloridan.com/news/2011/feb/27/expert-family-searching-body-doesnt-exist

I think everyone should heed the warning from the diver that went further than all have. Just my thoughts.
Have a great day!

I was told that in his search for Ben, Edd Sorensen went so far back that he had to turn his head sideways to fit through the passage. He had to do this because the passage was too short for his head to fit through while straight. Edd was also using a smaller tank (7.25" verses 8") than Ben, and even his smaller tank was becoming stuck. I think that's what some people mean when they say that it's "impossible" for Ben to be inside the cave at Vortex. I don't think anyone is looking to put Ben in a bad light, but the theory that Ben willingly disappeared is the next most reasonable explanation for his disappearance. It's also possible that foul play was involved, and that Ben is simply a victim, but at this point, the least likeliest explanation is that Ben is in that cave. Otherwise I believe the Florida cave diving community would have made continuing efforts to return him to his family.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

ok ill say it lock the gate to that hole it is not worth it .that was my recomendation after the search was completed. There is no need to allow anyone else to push a search back in that cave system . bens equipment and training screams stupid and I am not willing to risk the death of a real caver or wantabe to ease the suffering of a father who has been offered all the sympathy of this industry and the efforts of many great people at no cost to him and accepted the help but refuses the facts presented to him. He values the body ( death certificate)of his son over the life of a diver tell him to go get the training spend a few years gaining experience and go diving. if he wants to spend money to make himself feel better pay the divers that already searched and risked there lives and families( at no cost to bens family) as well. I dont want to come off as uncaring but there comes a time to move on and we have reached it. IF you allowed edd and others to go into that enviroment and then reject their findings despite the years of training knowledge and experience brought to the table. then you are in a grief,greed or emotional funk that you need professional help with. sorry for the harsh tone but a divers life is worth a lot to me.

That was my point, if Edd saw any evidence that anyone had went past him I can say with 100% confidence that he would not stop. Edd doesnt know how to quit, he just inst that type of person.

 

[boulderjohn]

If I understand correctly, the actors in the movie Sanctum were trained in cave diving technique in remarkably little time. With that kind of instruction, Ben's father should be able to make the search himself in a couple of months. By that time he should have at least as much skill as Ben had, so he should be able to get as far as Ben did.

 

[irishsquid]

Sorry guys, the family doesn't get any sympathy from me on this. Offering a reward to "fearless" divers shows me just how selfish these people are...

I'm with you Het. I'm not a cavediver, but I know a few. I would not consider any of them "fearless" They are skilled, trained, calculating, and intelligent. What I know of them, fearless would just be another word for "Stupid".
As others have alluded, instead of offering $10k to someone else to risk their life, invest it in gear and training and look for himself. With proper training, he could get far enough along to realize that what he's thinking and asking is ludicrous.

 

[boulderjohn]

What I know of them, fearless would just be another word for "Stupid".

This idea is essentially Aristotle's concept of the "golden mean." Extremes in behavior are to be avoided; the middle ground is the place where virtue resides.

Let us take courage as an example. A person who avoids a task because of an unreasonable fear of the consequences is a coward. A person who undertakes a foolishly risky task with no sense of fear is reckless. A courageous person calculates risk and need and overcomes fears to perform the task.

 

[boulderjohn]

Further thoughts...

Ben has been justifiably accused of reckless and irresponsible behavior in his previous visits to Vortex.

I wonder how he came to be that way?

I am thinking of apples and the way they fall from trees right now.

 

[Docc]

Perhaps the reward offered by the family is intended more for non-cave divers/non-divers who may have assisted Ben (assuming that his disappearance was a ruse) in vanishing or for some "Ben friend" who may have had some contact with him since his disappearance. The reward may just be an attempt to "shake the trees" a bit and see if anyone bites. Some of Ben's own friends and associates made statements on one of their local community boards that his disappearance being concocted may have been a real possibility.

(The thoughts mentioned above are merely conjecture and are in no way intended to convey that Ben was anything other than an excellent diver and a great human being. The thoughts are also not intended to besmirch or cause grievance to Ben's family who apparently read everything I've ever posted on any diving boards)

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

To me its like this. Its hard to fault the parents who are acting on words from the Sheriff dept that he is in there. The third try at this I was there. Edd, Stacy and I showed up around 9am, met with the sheriff for a few hours going over maps and other evidence. Edd and I went in the water with Stacy doing surface support. 3 1/2 hours later we surface from a cave that takes about 45 minutes to dive. We give a play by play to the investigator that there is NO EVIDENCE he is there. That took another couple of hours, the man looks at both of us and says " well he has to be there somewhere" thats whats wrong with this whole freaking thing. Thats why they dont give up.

 

[Cave Diver]

That took another couple of hours, the man looks at both of us and says " well he has to be there somewhere" thats whats wrong with this whole freaking thing. Thats why they dont give up.

Did you suggest that he take a look for himself?

Obviously it would be much easier to teach a professional investigator how to dive than it would be to teach a diver how to be a professional investigator.