Visual inspection question

[ClayJar]

I was told during my PSI VCI class that the official answer was the beginning of the month, but that I was likely to see different interpretations of the expiration.

In practice, I know my LDS will fill to the end of the stickered month, so if I'm diving with them, I take my time. If I'm diving somewhere else, I'll just get around to doing my inspections to avoid any potential annoyance. (Last time, I did a dozen cylinders on a Tuesday night so I could get them filled on Wednesday for a dive trip leaving Thursday, and thanks to my TiVo, I didn't even miss House. :biggrin

 

[DA Aquamaster]

"Err on the side of caution and use the first of the month" is a legal cover your butt answer, especially on what is an industry requirement not found to be neccesary in any other industry.

Making it an 11 point something month requirement rather than a 12 month requirement just adds to the potential customer revenue stream (by 8.33%).

Given overall improvements in compressors, fill procedures and equipment, I'd love to see current research that an annual VIP promotes safety compared to the one done at hydro test. If the evidence were there in the first place, the odds are that the DOT would have mandated it. And while there is potentially a case for 12 months versus 60 months, I highly doubt there would be any evidence to support the importance of 12 months versus 12 months and 30 days. If the tank was truly good to go 12 months ago, an extra 30 days is not going to mean the difference between a safe fill and catastrophic failure, scuba tanks just don't degrade that fast.

To be fair, if a shop is going to enforce the first of the month criteria they need to give customers an 8% discount on the cost of the VIP when they come in for a VIP at the end of the month, much as they would on a new old stock tank with less time left on the hydro test.

 

[Scared Silly]

Are you sure about this? I have argued this point many times, with various PSI luminaries at the PSI stand at DEMA, and they always insist that it expires on the first day of the month, since otherwise, by skillful manipulation of when the test was performed, someone might (horrors!) squeeze 12 months and 30 days out of an inspection. Fortunately, most shops take a more logical view, and consider it to expire on the last day , as do vehicle registrations and inspections, aircraft inspections, and hydros.



While your logic is impeccable, it is always dangerous to make authoritive statements about visuals, since they have no legal standing, and hence there is no "right" way to do them, which means no absolute statements can be made about them. Sort of like the rules for croquest. I personally think the "you ought to be able to get the tanks inspected on the same day every year, and have them in inspection the full year" arguement is a pretty conclusive one, and it would be nice if PSI came around.

Vance, I was recalling off what I remember reading in my course materials. I could well be recalling incorrectly. Especially given what others have now written. I will do some digging tonight.

But if it is the first of the month then I would agree with you that it does not follow the typical end of the month used by other industries.

 

[oxyhacker]

Under the "last day" rule, if one wants to be clever, one takes the tank in on the last day of the month and picks it up on the first day of the next month. Let's say you get it back April 1st. You use it all year until the end of the next April, and do the same thing. Now the sticker says May. You repeat, and the next sticker says June. You are getting 13 months out of each sticker, at the cost of being a bit silly

On the other hand, if you go by the "first day" theory, then the only way to get a full year out of the sticker and still maintain continuous coverage is to do the same thing, which is inconvenient and also silly. Common sense says if the inspection period is a year you ought to be able to bring the tanks in on the same day each year and maintain continuous coverage.

If you get your vis done on the last day of the month, your sticker is good for 11 months, not nearly 13. The sticker is only good for one year.

I would love to know exactly where it says so. DOT or CGA please, not some magazine article or certifying agency handout.

Hydrostatic test date: must be within 5 years - expires on forst day of month.

 

[ianw2]

I would love to know exactly where it says so. DOT or CGA please, not some magazine article or certifying agency handout.

Actually it was a certifying agency handout...PSI.

 

[captain]

Here in Louisiana we have to get a yearly vehicle inspection sticker. It expires at the end of the month stamped on the sticker so if I got the vehicle inspected on April 1st I am not out of compliance until May 1st. If they want to that picky about VIP add the day to it not just the month and year.

 

[akdeepdiver]

I would love to know exactly where it says so. DOT or CGA please, not some magazine article or certifying agency handout.

I run a testing facility and this is what the DOT Says:

"c) Periodic requalification of cylinders. Each cylinder bearing a DOT specification marking must be requalified and marked as specified in the Requalification Table in this subpart. Each cylinder bearing a DOT special permit number must be requalified and marked in conformance with this section and the terms of the applicable special permit. No cylinder may be filled with a hazardous material and offered for transportation in commerce unless that cylinder has been successfully requalified and marked in accordance with this subpart. A cylinder may be requalified at any time during or before the month and year that the requalification is due. However, a cylinder filled before the requalification becomes due may remain in service until it is emptied. A cylinder with a specified service life may not be refilled and offered for transportation after its authorized service life has expired."

This is found in 49 CFR 180.205 section (c). This can be found at the DOT's Website. Link is: Rules & Regulations

 

[Luis H]

I run a testing facility and this is what the DOT Says:

"c) Periodic requalification of cylinders. Each cylinder bearing a DOT specification marking must be requalified and marked as specified in the Requalification Table in this subpart. Each cylinder bearing a DOT special permit number must be requalified and marked in conformance with this section and the terms of the applicable special permit. No cylinder may be filled with a hazardous material and offered for transportation in commerce unless that cylinder has been successfully requalified and marked in accordance with this subpart. A cylinder may be requalified at any time during or before the month and year that the requalification is due. However, a cylinder filled before the requalification becomes due may remain in service until it is emptied. A cylinder with a specified service life may not be refilled and offered for transportation after its authorized service life has expired."

This is found in 49 CFR 180.205 section (c). This can be found at the DOT's Website. Link is: Rules & Regulations

That makes sense…just like vehicle inspections, etc.

The sentence following the bold one also makes sense.

I don’t remember discussing this in my PSI class, but I will bring it up the next time I talk to Mark at the main office.

Thanks for the link.

 

[oxyhacker]

I almost posted that 180.205 quote with my last post, but didn't because, since while any reasonable person would read it to mean it to be referring to the month stamped on the tank, it doesn't really authoritively answer the question, since it doesn't define what is meant by the month the requalification is due. That being the case, a fanatic "first-day-of-the-monther" can still insist that since the qualification expires on the FIRST day of the month, the CFR refers to the month BEFORE the last hydro was done.

BTW, re the second part, this has been a handy shelter for many of us who get caught on dive boats, etc, with out-of-hydro tanks since there is no way for the scuba cops to establish when the tank was last filled. I got confirmation from TC in Canada recently that its the same in Canada too, that is to say, you can go on using the contents of a tank after the hydro expires, as long as you don't refill it.

That makes sense…just like vehicle inspections, etc.

The sentence following the bold one also makes sense.

I don’t remember discussing this in my PSI class, but I will bring it up the next time I talk to Mark at the main office.

Thanks for the link.

 

[pescador775]

This is why I like Scubaboard. The best minds are brought to bear on the most inane subjects.