video lights... are they really worth the $$

[robint]

Hi guys,

After reading all the comments on Dr Bill's thread about green cast in his HD videos, I wanted to discuss lights.

I just returned from Bonaire (awesome, awesome, awesome) and I do NOT have an HD but a miniDV HC-42. Not the newest but I like the lowlight capability and have been using it for 1.5 years. I have been diving in cold water and warm, clear and 10' vis, blue water and green water.

My red filter works beautifully for wide-angle to close-ups in all conditions. I did however, want to see what diving with lights would be like so I borrowed a pair of very nice lights for a dive......... yuck! Talk about green images. I had a heck of a time working with the lights and getting them focused on my subject, and then viewing on my screen they all looked yuck. Viewing them at home on my monitor confirmed that my "red filter" footage is way better, clearer even, than the same footage done with the lights. (Yes, I would set up with lights and shoot then turn off lights and replace the red filter and shoot again). I decided that using such lights in daytime is completely pointless and actually made my video footage look nasty as everything was green..... and this was in clear blue Bonaire water at 30-50' depth. I am guessing if it was night or lower vis maybe they would be more effective but gosh for $900 pricetag I wasn't impressed.
Am I crazy or are red filters better than lights in most cases???

Here's a link to my one of my edited Bonaire videos using red filter: http://www.rnrscuba.net/Bonaire/Bona...iful_reefs.wmv
please right click on link and save as to your computer and play it from there
here's a link to one of my Calif videos from last year, same thing, red filter, no lights: http://www.rnrscuba.net/Grace/Anacapa2006.wmv
These are low res for the internet (my actual videos are much sharper and clearer) and not HD but I think the colors look nice and true and the camcorder was able to autofocus and autowhitebalance. Yes?

How many of you use lights vs. how many people are just using red filters.... ?

robin
1 week til Great Escape to San Clemente and Catalina!

 

[ronscuba]

I get the best coloring using lights for closeup shots 3ft. or closer, filter for everything else.

What lights were you using ? Daytime shooting needs powerful lights, especially in clear water because your lights need to overcome the light from the sun.

 

[ronscuba]

Here are 2 videoclip screen grabs from St Vincent in the Caribbean. No enhancement other than deinterlaced. Shot using twin 50 watt halogen lights and my old standard definition Sony TRV900. If I used just the filter, it would look much less colorful.

 

[pcorliss]

Firstly - nice video (was able to view the Anacapa footage - the Bonaire link was down)

I use both...and feel they both serve different and vital purposes. The red filter is critical due to the loss of that spectrum in deeper (shallow for California) shots - but for macro and night shooting the lights are required. They can rarely be used simultaneously...and the majority of those result in over saturated reds.

I have found that, given the option, I opt for having too much red in raw footage that can be unsaturated in post...versus dealing with the reality that you can't put color back in that never existed. I shoot with dual, heavily diffused light cannons, and again, for the macro and night shots that make up a heavy percentage of what I shoot beach-diving in So.Cal, lights are indispensable.

The majority of your shots in the Anacapa footage were daytime, wide shots which wouldn't benefit from the lights - but certainly look a lot better than if there had been no red filter. The lobster shot, had you gotten closer and had to deal with the "hole" behind it, would have probably required lights...same if you had wanted to bring out the background on the giant spinded star - although as you say, sometimes getting the proper light focus for those shots can be frustrating.

I too am not shooting HD - I've shot the same Sony DCR-PC110 and Sea&Sea housing for over 5 years now...red filter from day one. For single-chip cameras like ours which almost always have 37mm lenses or smaller - external lights become even more important as they are unable to bring in as much ambient light as the big boys.

 

[robint]

I used a pair of these:
http://www.reefphoto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_21&products_id=1993
I had them up of full when shooting, video footage was lime green with a pinkish tint where the lights were focused only. Very odd looking and completely un-natural.
Maybe better lights would have given better results?

robin

 

[JeffG]

I used a pair of these:
http://www.reefphoto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_21&products_id=1993
I had them up of full when shooting, video footage was lime green with a pinkish tint where the lights were focused only. Very odd looking and completely un-natural.
Maybe better lights would have given better results?

robin

20 W Halogen light. Not much good for anything if you ask me.

I've used dual 24W Hid and it works good. Single 24W HID...ok, but you get shadows. I've seen dual 50W HID and thats like carring a liitle piece of the sun. (Great for inside a wreck).

 

[ronscuba]

I agree with Jeff. Those lights won't be much good except for night dives and very close macro on day dives. Not enough power.

 

[drbill]

With my mini-DV and earlier camcorders, I've had no problems with the green cast using dual or even a single 35w halogen light. However, as Ron suggested, I only use the lights with subjects closer than 3 feet. I don't have the ability to easily incorporate a flippable red filter, but I don't shoot much other than close-ups anyway.

It does take time to get a feel for how to light subjects for best effect. After my first video light flooded a few years back, I continued filming with the single remaining light and adapted my filming and lighting techniques to that. I was able to get a lot of very good footage... until my second light "flooded" (3 drops?) last weekend.

The only time I've had a problem with the green cast on "close-ups" was with the Sony HC-7 when lighting a close (12") subject with more distant (2-5') areas in the background (where the light couldn't reach). If I am filming a subject with a background that is at similar distance to the subject, everything is fine unless I cast strong shadows... they turn green.

Of course there will be a green cast to footage shot in SoCal at any depth due to plankton, etc.

 

[robint]

okay, so that explains why the footage was so bad.. better lights would have made the colors look like colors rather than shades of green.
So, that being said....pair of 20w Fisheye Halogen bad,,.... pair of 50w or 100w Ikelite lights good? (I am using an Ikelite housing)

 

[ronscuba]

okay, so that explains why the footage was so bad.. better lights would have made the colors look like colors rather than shades of green.
So, that being said....pair of 20w Fisheye Halogen bad,,.... pair of 50w or 100w Ikelite lights good? (I am using an Ikelite housing)

Yeah, I agree. You should get good footage with those lights.

Halogen lights are a pretty good value. They are much less expensive than HID and you can instantly turn them on/off which balances out the shorter burn time compared to HID.

To give you an idea of what you can expect, here is a link to a video shot with twin 50 watt halogen lights. If I remember correctly, the whole video was shot with lights only, no filter.

http://stage6.divx.com/user/ronscuba/video/1383166/St-Vincent