Video from a Training Dive with John Chatterton

[rddvet]

Wait, so let me understand. For the purposes of this thread, pro-Chatterton posts are from fanboys who are blindly following a celebrity diver. Anti-Chatterton posts are from impartial divers who have taken both types of class and are making an independent judgement.

You're just looking to keep arguing. I was specifically and only referring to his one comment. His comment that it's a "different" kind of wreck class clearly implies that he is attempting to justify the poor skills demonstrated. He even comments that Chatterton is outside of the box compared to other (I read that as typical) instructors. People make comments about GUE divers drinking the Koolaid. I find his comment comes off not much different. He's obviously a fan of how Chatterton does his thing and agrees with his perspective. If this was a GUE class everybody would make Koolaid jokes.

If you want to make this about every "pro-Chatterton" post, then go ahead. But I clearly was referring to his specific comment.

 

[doctormike]

You're just looking to keep arguing. I was specifically and only referring to his one comment. His comment that it's a "different" kind of wreck class clearly implies that he is attempting to justify the poor skills demonstrated. He even comments that Chatterton is outside of the box compared to other (I read that as typical) instructors. People make comments about GUE divers drinking the Koolaid. I find his comment comes off not much different. He's obviously a fan of how Chatterton does his thing and agrees with his perspective. If this was a GUE class everybody would make Koolaid jokes.

If you want to make this about every "pro-Chatterton" post, then go ahead. But I clearly was referring to his specific comment.

Hey, you were the one who responded to him. I had forgotten about this thread, because it had gotten kind of sad.

I'm not trying to argue just for the sake of argument, but it seemed to me that you dismissed him as just a fan blindly following his instructor. Why was that? He was just telling you what he liked about JC's class. He didn't just say "JC is awesome and can do no wrong!".

I wouldn't do the same thing in reverse. For example, Chris is a very well respected tech instructor (trainer) and a leader in diving on a national level. I wouldn't dismiss anyone who praises him as just a fan, blindly following his instructor.

 

[rddvet]

Hey, you were the one who responded to him. I had forgotten about this thread, because it had gotten kind of sad.

I'm not trying to argue just for the sake of argument, but it seemed to me that you dismissed him as just a fan blindly following his instructor. Why was that? He was just telling you what he liked about JC's class. He didn't just say "JC is awesome and can do no wrong!".

I wouldn't do the same thing in reverse. For example, Chris is a very well respected tech instructor (trainer) and a leader in diving on a national level. I wouldn't dismiss anyone who praises him as just a fan, blindly following his instructor.

He's continually seemed to push that he sees nothing wrong with the video. He then argues that it's a "different" type of class. That's comes off as a justification for an instructor he likes.

Did you watch the video? I'm not sure how anybody can say there weren't major fundamental issues there.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You wanna know a big secret that will really make you fall over - he doesn't make you train with a long hose on the second post..............

Do I understand correctly that JC teaches solo wreck diving and not team-based rec penetration? I’m not sure if you were implying that the long hose is on a different post or if it’s not there all together . If not there altogether how is sharing gas through restrictions taught ?

 

[doctormike]

He's continually seemed to push that he sees nothing wrong with the video. He then argues that it's a "different" type of class. That's comes off as a justification for an instructor he likes.

Did you watch the video? I'm not sure how anybody can say there weren't major fundamental issues there.

I did and you are not wrong.

I guess the disconnect we are having is that you feel that those - in isolation, and with no other knowledge of the class - are absolute dealbreakers, and others don't. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but it seems that feel that anyone looking at that video who still speaks positively of JCs teaching is just a fanboy, because there is no other explanation. Is that right?

 

[cerich]

Do I understand correctly that JC teaches solo wreck diving and not team-based rec penetration? I’m not sure if you were implying that the long hose is on a different post or if it’s not there all together . If not there altogether how is sharing gas through restrictions taught ?

from the TDI Standards for Advanced Wreck course

3. Regulators a. Primary and primary redundant required on all primary breathing cylinders b. Submersible pressure gauges are required on all primary cylinder(s) c. A contingency use long hose second stage should be designated and appropriately rigged to facilitate air sharing at depth if necessary

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

from the TDI Standards for Advanced Wreck course

3. Regulators a. Primary and primary redundant required on all primary breathing cylinders b. Submersible pressure gauges are required on all primary cylinder(s) c. A contingency use long hose second stage should be designated and appropriately rigged to facilitate air sharing at depth if necessary

Chris,

I'm not asking about standards as I can look those up myself. I'm asking about how JC runs his course from your new best friend.

 

[cerich]

Chris,

I'm not asking about standards as I can look those up myself. I'm asking about how JC runs his course from your new best friend.

I think you will find the answer here..

"Opening remarks: Responsibility"

"
I teach Trimix, and I train divers to share air and buddy breathe, but these are not practical skills. These are confidence building skills like using the blackout mask. These are also exercises to prove to divers that they never want to involve a buddy in a gas supply emergency other than passing off a bottle, so they need to be diligent about being self reliant.



If I am on a deep open circuit wreck dive (where I am not instructing students) I am not even using a long hose on my bottom gas. I am willing to help any diver manage a problem, buddy or not, however supplying gas to another diver, especially on the bottom, is unnecessary and incredibly dangerous for both parties. My secondary regulator is there for me, not you! If you try to take it from me, I will fight you for it, and I will win. That is my plan. There is no reason in the world for a deep diver to need gas from me on the bottom, much less jump me. Breathe your own damn gas, any gas, even the wrong gas, and return to the surface as quickly and safely as possible. I will help you if I can, but is it fair for one diver to expect another to save him/her, as part of the plan?"

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I think you will find the answer here..

"Opening remarks: Responsibility"

"
I teach Trimix, and I train divers to share air and buddy breathe, but these are not practical skills. These are confidence building skills like using the blackout mask. These are also exercises to prove to divers that they never want to involve a buddy in a gas supply emergency other than passing off a bottle, so they need to be diligent about being self reliant.



If I am on a deep open circuit wreck dive (where I am not instructing students) I am not even using a long hose on my bottom gas. I am willing to help any diver manage a problem, buddy or not, however supplying gas to another diver, especially on the bottom, is unnecessary and incredibly dangerous for both parties. My secondary regulator is there for me, not you! If you try to take it from me, I will fight you for it, and I will win. That is my plan. There is no reason in the world for a deep diver to need gas from me on the bottom, much less jump me. Breathe your own damn gas, any gas, even the wrong gas, and return to the surface as quickly and safely as possible. I will help you if I can, but is it fair for one diver to expect another to save him/her, as part of the plan?"

Chris,

I saw that a ways back. My question is for some who has taken the course from JC. This isn't you.

 

[rddvet]

I did and you are not wrong.

I guess the disconnect we are having is that you feel that those - in isolation, and with no other knowledge of the class - are absolute dealbreakers, and others don't. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but it seems that feel that anyone looking at that video who still speaks positively of JCs teaching is just a fanboy, because there is no other explanation. Is that right?

Nope. That's how you're interpreting it. Never once said anybody that speaks positively is a fan boy. I simply stated that's how his comment was coming off.
Another explanation is that they just don't feel the skills allowed were subpar.
We can be done with the semantics discussion now.