video cameras

[Nitrox Junkie]

I have been concidering purchasing a underwater video camera and housing but am not sure what to get. I need something that works good in low light conditions like the great lakes. Any recomendations? Jeff

 

[Mario S Caner]

Jeff,
Look into Sony Camcorders for the sweetest in underwater video. The PC110 is the smallest, the TRV900 is a middle of the road, and the VX-2000 offers outstanding video quality. The housings are also pretty expensive, so make sure you do your research on those too. Gates and Lights and Motion are some good choices. Remember that lighting is key! Take a look at Niterider's lighting systems.

 

[bdombrowski]

I think a TRV-900 is way beyond middle of the road. It's a 3-CCD camera that yields broadcast quality results as good as a VX-2000 underwater, but is less expensive and much smaller.

If you're not going into professional video, you won't need a 3-CCD camera, especially in the Great Lakes where vivid colors and good ambient light very rare. (I learned to dive there 12 years ago.)

Are you shooting video for fun or to make $?

 

[Nitrox Junkie]

Thanks guys for your input.
I am just wanting to be able to capture the underwater world for my own enjoyment and dont want to spend an arm and a leg. I know some of the cameras out there are priced high enough to crack a lake freighters keel and this is what i'm trying to avoid. I have looked at the JVC GR-sx850 camcorder with the ikelite housing. This recorder package was for sale here in town at the local dive shop for $2,800 and from that price they would not budge. Well I got onto ikelites website at http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/jvc_pkg.html and their price is alot less at $1,300; And for what I am doing this I think would be fine. What do you think? I am not out for perfect just to be able to bring my trips home with me in a different format that memory. Let me know, and again thank you both for your input. Jeff greatlakes diver.

 

[bdombrowski]

Jeff:

I would stay away from the VHS or even S-VHS camcorders for u/w use. It's going to be too big and too close to being obsolete. If you want to go VHS or S-VHS you can probably find used cameras and Ikelite housings on Ebay. I know what your thinking. "You must be crazy to buy something like that on Ebay". However, you would be surprised to see how many people buy these systems use them three times, then put them in the closet for 3 years. I've seen some steals out there. You need to be careful though. I bought an Ikelite housing for my Nikon N90S still camera on Ebay for half of the new cost. I sent it into Ikelite and for $80 they overhauled all the seals and controls and pressure tested it to 250 fsw.

If you definitely want to go "new", and don't want to spend lots of $, go Hi-8 rather than VHS or S-VHS. The reason is that the rig will be much smaller and easier to handle and transport. Also, if you want to go digital later, you can get a DV-8 camera that will playback Hi-8 tapes and transcode them to DV data streams. This is the route I used. I had a Sony TRV-65 (Hi-8) and Ikelite housing for several years and accumulated about 40 hours of select footage from all over Florida and the Carribean. I wanted to do digital editing on the PC, so I bought a Sony TRV-320 DV-8 camera. This allowed me to take my old Hi-8 content and transcode it to a DV stream into my computer using iLink (firewire.) I edit using MediaStudio Pro on the PC and export the final content to archive on DV-8 tapes. Using this technique there is zero quality loss during the editing and archiving process.

I only use the TRV-320 for transcoding and archiving right now. I still shoot all my original source in Hi-8. The reason is that I can get 2 hours of content recorded on one tape, not the limited 60 minutes on DV-8 or mini-DV. I don't like to open the housing on the boat to change tapes and expose the system to salt air. Also, on single CCD cameras, it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between source shot in Hi-8 or DV. You can tell the difference on 3-CCD DV cameras, but they are going to start at 3x the price.

As far as where to buy a system, go through B&H Photo out of New York. You will save about 30% from list price. All the pros shop through B&H. My TRV-320 was selling at Best Buy for $799 when I bought it from B&H for $629. http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Another piece of advice is to make sure you buy a housing that incorporates a color correcting filter on the OUTSIDE of the housing. Ikelite systems have this. Other's like Ocean Images do not. This is a huge drawback. You need to be able to remove the filter underwater when you go into low-light environments and use artificial lights (like wreck penetrations or swim-throughs.) Otherwise, your content will be tinted RED.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Brian

 

[bdombrowski]

One more thing Jeff...

You may not start out with artificial video lights initially when you get started, but you may add them as you gain experience. Whatever you do, don't by technical diving lights (i.e. cave or wreck lites) for use as a video flood. Light for video need to be the correct color temperature (5500K.) Otherwise the colors will look like crap. Further, you need a flood for uniform coverage, not a spot. Most tech lights are spots. Ikelite makes a Pro Video light for their u/w housings. The light head has an integrated modeling light. This comes in handy as a primary light when I'm bringing my video rig on night dives. When I want to start shooting... I flip on the 50W flood.

 

[Nitrox Junkie]

Hey Brian!

Now I am really confused. I want simply to get a good camera and obviously your the one to ask.

What do you think I should get? I thought I had it all figured out and then you sent me in a 1-80.

If I am diving in the greatlakes for instance; What do you think I need. You dont think the jvc would be a good camera for what I intend to do? Mostly low vis recording. Like the great lakes and quarry diving. Actually I shouldnt say low vis the vis is actually great but not what you are obviously used to.

I really appreciate all the detailed info that you sent me it will help I am sure in the end but right now I guess I have to refigure my needs.

Any more info reguarding the type of camera considering the environment that I will be diving would be appreciated. I just want to be happy with what I get.

Thanks again brian....................... Jeff (GLD)

 

[bdombrowski]

Jeff:

I didn't mean to confuse you. I just didn't want you to make a mistake. You have a bit of time to make a decision, right? Afterall, I'm pretty sure there will still be snow on the ground up in MI for a few weeks yet. (I feel your pain... I spent the first 25 years of my life in MI.)

Anyway, a VHS camera in a housing is going to be HUGE. VHS tapes are large and the camera needs to obviously be larger than the tape. 8mm, Hi-8, and Digital-8 tapes are like the size of an audio cassette. Mini-DVs are even smaller yet.

I know it's convenient to just take the VHS tape out of a camcorder and pop it into the VCR to watch it, but do you really want to lug a torpedo around on the boat and underwater? You can pretty easily connect a Hi-8 or Digital-8 camera to a TV or VCR to either playback or copy your source to a VHS tape to share with friends. The Hi-8 and Digital-8 will look much better than the VHS too, since the vertical resolution is twice that of VHS.

I would go with an Ikelite video housing for sure. Their systems are reasonable and their service is great. I've made about 150 dives using my system w/o incident. I would recommend a Sony camera myself (Hi-8 if you analog source is OK, or DV-8 if you want digital source.) Go to Ikelite's website and see what other cameras they make housings for.

Sony's have pretty good low-light capabilities. However, on any CCD type camcorder, the lower the light, the more grainy your picture will look. Another rule is that shots look best when shot through the least amount of water. In other words, stay close to the subject. This is even more important in low vis situations obviously.

On another note, that price of $2800 is OUTRAGEOUS. You can get a better rig for much less than that. I found that JVC camcorder you mentioned online for $329. The housing through B&H Photo-Video is probably about $675 new.

Brian

 

[Mario S Caner]

Hey Guys,
I've forwarded this thread link to an award winning professional underwater videographer, whom will be posting soon to throw in his two cents worth... hope that helps!

 

[bdombrowski]

Just some more info Jeff. UR/Pro makes several different color correcting filters for different types of water situations. Ikelite ships an external (underwater removable) RED UR/Pro filter included with most of their housings. Again, stay away from the system that have filter mounted on the camera itself where you can't remove it underwater.

UR/Pro's site is here:
http://www.naper.com/urpro/

One more thing to clear up, that $2800 system you mentioned was very high just for that type of system. If you went for a high end aluminum housing, it alone would probably cost that much.

The question you need to ask yourself is "what results do I expect and how much am I willing to spend to get them". For the value, I don't think you can beat the Ikelite housings. I know a shop operator in Grand Turk who has used one extensively w/o incident for 9 years without overhauling it until last month. Though I wouldn't recommend going that long without and overhaul, his story add proof that Ikelite makes great stuff for the money. Also, if you have a problem their service is very good and cooperative... not the same story with some of the other manufacturers.

Regardless of the housing you get, make sure you get a personal articles insurance policy on your system through your homeowners insurance. I carry about $8K of u/w camera insurance through my homeowners for about $1 per $100 of coverage annually. This is a no-deductible, no-questions-asked policy. The peace of mind is worth the $80 per year to me.

Brian