Very basic question

[PaulaA]

I have had it with my sealife camera. The worst is the random fogging up of the lens, even though I do everything the company said to do, and after one housing replacement,--which by the way, are ridiculous requirements to make an underwater camera work.
Anyway, in looking at cameras and underwater housings, asking other divers for recommendations, it seems that point and shoot cameras have Ikelite housings hundreds of dollars cheaper than housings for SLRs. Why the difference in the price for the housings? Are the pictures with SLRs better, more flexible to use? I'm willing to pay that difference in dollars if it results in better quality and more flexible picture taking.
Also, I had thought that point and shoot "replaced" SLRs in the photo industry? That originally SLRs were popular because they were point and shoot?
Thanks!
Paula

 

[herman]

Fogging is going to happen with any camera housing from the low end one to the most expensive DSLR. It's not the housing but how you are installing the camera. Preventing fogging is fairly easy if you follow a few simple rules. First off DO NOT open your camera housing outside of your room unless you absolutley must. It fogs because you let warm moist air into the housing. The way to stop the fogging is in how you prepair the camera. In your room before the dive, install the batteries and do whatever else you need to do the the camera then crank up the A/C in your room, making sure the compressor is on- just blowing air is not good enough, it has to be cooling as well. Put the camera in the housing and hold it up to the A/C air flow for a couple of minutes, flushing out the inside of the housing. This drys out any moisture in the housing and camera. It also flushes out any moist air that in in the housing. Now close the housing while it is still in the air stream and leave it that way until you return to your room. Taking a cool camera from inside an ACed room outside and then opening it is asking for fogging, you just condenced moisture in the housing which will fog when you get it in the water. The worst thing you can do is open up a cool camera on a warm humid boat.....leave it closed. There is no need for moisture munchers doing this. It works for me every time.

The bottom line is, housing fogging is not the housing's fault but yours. Any housing will fog if it has enough moist air in it when you close it. Which by the way, is the reason for the ramdom nature of the fogging. It all depends on the temperature of the camera, the water temperature and the humidity in the air when you close the housing. If there is no moisture in the housing, it can not fog.


As for camera types there are basically 3 types. The low end P&S varity, the upper end P&S, what Olympus use to call Prosumer and DSLRs. The low end P&S cameras are pretty much that, point and press and whatever comes out comes out. The upper end of the P&S range offer a lot more features like optical zoom, more flash power and most importanly more camera control. DSLRs on the other hand offer all that but also allow you to change lenses and housing ports. The power of DSLRs comes at a price, both in cost and the physical size of the equipment. For most of us, the upper end P&S cameras are all we need. They are capable of better photos than most of the photographers behind them, cost a lot less than DSLRs and come in a lot more travel friendly (smaller/lighter) package.

 

[PaulaA]

Thanks for the info on the DSLRs vs. P&S. That is very helpful. I'll probably go with the high end P&S.
I would have to respectfully disagree though, on the fogging issue. First of all, we (my buddy and I)never had fogging issues with the 500 or the 800. Only the 1000, which has a different housing than the 800. Second of all, it fogs randomly...even after we have prepared the camera as you outlined. Which is what SeaLife told us when we first reported the problem. Also, we have to open the camera between dives because the battery is drained after one/two dives. And sometimes it doesn't fog at all after we've opened it between dives. Sometimes it fogs at the beginning of a dive and then clears, then sometimes it stays clear and only fogs at the end of the dive.
This is my point--even after all the careful preparations, or not, it is random fogging we have ONLY experienced with the DC1000. The other divers we have run into who use Ikelite housings have reported not having any problems, but other divers with DC1000s have told us they have the same fogging problems. I think it is something unique to the DC1000 housings.
Thanks again for the info. Happy New Year and Happy Diving. Paula

 

[herman]

We will have to disagree I suspose. A housing can not fog unless there is moist air in it. You must have humidity to form fog, no moisture, no fog, unless it is leaking which is a totally different matter. Other than free space, the design of the housing has no bearing on the amount of moisture in the housing. I am not familure with any of those particular housing but the only design parameter that could effect fogging is the internal free space (air gaps) in the housing. Obviously, the more free space the more place for humid air to collect. Still, that is an operator issue, not clearing out the moist air, not a design flaw.
If you must open the housing, blowing out the housing with air from your tank will displace the moisture laden air and dry any surfaces the have condenced moisture.

 

[Warren_L]

I'm not sure I would agree with the postulate that fogging happens with all cameras, although I suppose it could happen with any camera given the right circumstances. If you look at why the housing fogs, it happens when warm air is cooled suddenly, and you tend to get more fogging with a larger temperature gradient.

If you look at the differences between dSLRs and compact cameras, we can easily see why compacts tend to perhaps fog more easily.

First, the air space inside the housing tends to be smaller. This means that it is easier to heat up the air in the housing. With a dSLR and the typically larger air space, it can still heat up but I would tend to think it would take a lot longer to do so.

Secondly, the LCD screen on compacts tend to be on all the time. On my dSLRs, I have have the screen on from time to time, but it is definitely not on 100%. The screen generates a lot of heat.

Thirdly, compacts use live view, which is essentially motion video. Video controllers can release an enormous amount of heat. Ever notice how a laptop heats up so much when you play a lot of video on it? Same sort of thing. Some dSLRs have live view as well, but in my opinion, live view on dSLRs is pretty useless for underwater photography,

I think these are the main factors that contribute to fogging in your housing. My first underwater camera was a compact camera - an Oly C5050. Since then, I have owned 4 dSLR underwater cameras. I had some fogging issues with the Oly on occasion, but not always. I have never had an issue with any of my dSLRs. With the dSLR I don't use dessicant packs, I can pack the housing just about anywhere, and have never had any fogging issues.

Things you can do? You need to look at it from two ways. Reduce the temperature gradient and the moisture content of the air in the housing.

There's not much you can about the air space issue as that is pretty well fixed. To reduce the moisture, dessicant packs can help (just make sure they don't interfere with the sealing of the housing and the operation of the camera). Keep the housing under a towel or in a shaded area between dives. It may help to seal the housing in a cool air-conditioned room before the dive and avoid opening the housing unless you absolutely have to. Try not to use the LCD screen as much (not much you can do if you need live view to work), but perhaps have the screen shut off if you're not using it. Also, if your camera was left in the sun, try to cool it off gradually and that should reduce any fogging that might happen when you hit the water.

HTH

 

[BluewaterPhoto]

Have you been placing 1 or 2 recharged desiccants in the housing? In my experience that solves the issue 100% of the time, and is a must with all compact cameras. hope this helps

Scott

 

[maus711]

Is the housing on the DC1200 the same housing as the DC1000?

Mike

 

[Larry C]

Also, never leave your housing laying out in the sun between dives. I've had deck hands take my camera as I climbed onto the boat and lay it on a table near the swim step. The heat steams the moisture inside, then when you go back in the water it all condenses on glass port.
It's possible that your DC1000 gets warmer while shooting than other cameras you've owned, either the body or from the flash. Anything that warms the air inside beyond the temp of the housing, which is being water cooled, will cause condensation on the housing. I try to keep my camera and housing cool between dives, either inside the cabin or out of the sun, and I store it in a bag I bought at Costco that is insulated to keep food and drinks cool.
As for camera types, I went from a prosumer point and shoot (Olympus SP-350) to a mid-level DSLR (D300) with an aluminum housing from Sea & Sea. On the whole, I prefer the prosumer camera for its smaller size, greater flexibility and simplicity. The reasons I went to the DSLR are still valid. It's much faster, can do the extremes of macro and wide angle better and can produce far superior images when used properly.
The downsides are, they're incredibly expensive, big, heavy and less flexible. You have to decide what kind of pictures you're going to take before you start the dive. Although midrange zoom lenses are available, they're not nearly as effective on either end as the wide angle fish-eyes and the long macro lenses. I've taken many pictures I simply couldn't get with my old SP-350, and many of the same subjects that came out far better with the big Nikon. On the other hand, I've missed some great shots when the water conditions weren't what I expected. Also, the DSLR's are a lot more finicky about shooting. My old SP would take a lousy picture. If the light was wrong or the focus was off, it would still shoot. The Nikon steadfastly refuses to shoot unless it feels that the metering and focus are perfect, even when I try to tell it otherwise. Sometimes I'd rather have a bad picture than no picture at all.
Fortunately, the newest prosumer cameras are much faster and better, and the "mirrorless" cameras like the new Sony NEX-5 and the Olympus and Panasonic 4/3's cameras have larger sensors in a smaller package, with better microprocessors than the older prosumer models.

 

[PaulaA]

Is the housing on the DC1200 the same housing as the DC1000?

Mike

No they are not. Also, I believe all the accessories are different for the 1200...so all new expenses associated.

 

[HerraduraDivers]

Herman, Warren and Larry already said all, merged their hints are identical to my procedure:
1. close the housing the day before in a airconditioned but not cold room
2. you may open it again in the morning blowing it with dried air
3. dont open it during the day
4. get a soft- or hard cooler (i use a hard one) and fill it with a thick fluffy towel and cover the camera with it
5. store the cooler on the shade
6. you may fill the hard cooler with seawater to keep the camera in it's ambient temp
7. Don't even think to leave the camera in the rinse tank of the boat, most of the floodings occur there...
8. Dessicant packs can help to avoid fogging, they also can get trapped between the o-ring and lead to a leak... Desicants in a tube avoid that but i still don't like something else than my camera in the housing and i never needed to use them but a lot of people say that the are useful.
9. There may be a heat issue of the DC1200 and this can be difficoult to resolve, desscicants may help.

As said, fogging depends on temperature difference and air humidity and the point where the humidity condenses is called dew point.
Dew point - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Eliminating or reducing one (or 2) of this 2 elements will move the dew point to a point where no condensation will occur.


P&S or DSLR?
This question is very complex to answer and a spring of "animated" discussions.
I think that a good P&S like the G12/S95 is good enough for excellent pictures for
exigent uw-photographers.
EVIL Micro 4/3 cameras have bigger sensors and should provide "pro" quality immages
Modern DSLR are undoubthful the king of the reef and their high quality sensors, electronics and lenses will provide the best quality for extreme blow-ups or crops.
But the H-Factor (Human) is still the most important point of photography,
even a full frame 24MP sensor will record crap if crap is in front of the lens or the user uses crappy settings.
From non professional photographers i see much more good pictures from quality P&S then excellent pictures from DSLR's as a lot of people are overloaded with all the settings of modern DSLR cameras under and above the waterline.

Chris