Used regulators: how old is too old?

[84CJ7]

How old is it safe to buy assuming proper maintainance has been done, before a model isn't supported and parts are impossible to get? I am new to diving and looking at all the used stuff out there, but some of it is pretty old stuff that still seems to have most if not all the same features as the new stuff at a fraction of the price. Another problem is learning about the equipment since reviews only cover the latest stuff for the most part and its hard to figure out what quality level and features an older used piece might have in comparison to the new version. For example I was looking at this setup:

Mares MR12 DIN first stage, MR12III second stage, Akros Octo, and Sunto three guage console. completely rebuilt the regulator, and it is nitrox ready
For $140 plus shipping,

but having no clue how good a price that might be and not knowing what the features and good and bad points of that specific gear are I decided against it.

I also would like to buy once, so starter grade gear is not an option unless its used but in good condition and very cheap. And I 'll probably be hitting the great lakes, so something designed for when things get a little chilly would be nice if I have to spend alot.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

A lot depends on the company.

Both Scubapro and US Divers/Aqualung have long histories of providing ongoing parts and service support for decades and both use evolutionary approaches to improvements which means commonly used annual service parts remain available. Scubapro goes one better and tries, when possible, to make improvements in regulators retrofittable into older models.

For example, the original late 60's Adjustable second stage was upgradeable to the new and improved Balanced Adjustable configuration in the early 80's and both can still be upgraded to the current Balanced Adjustable configuration using the same internal parts as the G250 and S600, so despite 30 plus years of age, the second stage still perfroms exceptionally well.

Similarly, the D300, D350 and D400 second stage were all progressive upgrades and D300's and D350's could, and still can, be upgraded to D400 status. SP still provides parts and service support for all three despite the design being 20 years old and recently discontinued. And the D400, despite it's currently discontinued status, is one of the best breathing regs ever made.

The SP Mk 5 and Mk 10 are two of the most copied first stages in history and the more recent Mk 15, Mk 20 and Mk 25 have been evolutionary developments with the Mk 20 being upgradeable to Mk 25 status.

The MK 5 and Mk 10 with silicone protected environemtal chamber (SPEC) kits were very relaible in cold water as long as the ambient chambers were properly packed. The Mk 15 and early Mk 20 used the same SPEC kits and were easier to pack. But the use of silicone went out of vouge with nitrox even though mixes up to 40 percent are probably not a major issue. The result was the TIS system in mid to late prodction Mk 20's and all Mk 25's. This is fairly relaible but is not 100 percent effective in very cold water (below 50 degrees) particularly with anything other than low pressure 2250 to 2640 psi tanks.

Similarly, the Mk 3, Mk 200 and Mk 2, and Mk 2 Plus are also more or less progressive developments and are still very viable and readily serviced regs. I would not hestitate to buy a late production Mk 3 (with 3 LP ports),a Mk 200 or a Mk 2/Mk 2 Plus as all are very durable and will be supported for years to come.

The MK 3 and Mk 200 used SPEC kits while the MK 2 Plus uses the TIS system. However due to lower flow rates compared to the Mk 25, the Mk 2 Plus is quite reliable even in very cold water as are the relatively recent and better performing MK 16 and Mk 18 diaphragm first stages.

US Divers/Aqualung has produced several generations of the Conshelf first stage and most of the changes have been small and evolutionary with a high degree of commonality in parts regardless of the name used. I would not hesitate to buy a Conshelf 14, 22, or SE2 first stage nor would I hesitate to buy most USD divers second stages as annual service parts are again fairly common and still in production.

On the other hand, a used Dacor reg is probably destined to be a paper weight as the new owner, Mares, is rapidly discontinuing parts and service support for older Dacor regs. At this point annual service parts are no longer available for any of the numbered first stages nor are they available for the Enduro frst stage. Dacor second stage seats are also a little thicker than most others in the industry so swapping them with other brand seats is not always an option.

Mares recent actions with Dacor regs also make me very leary of their committment to long term customer service and their business philosophy in general. I would personally avoid any older Mares regulator.

 

[scubapro50]

Buying used equipment is like buying a used car ... there are some great deals out there but there is also a lot of junk. Being a "newbie" to the sport think twice before buying used equipment off E Bay..... you don't know what problems you could be in for. Many scuba companies are no longer in business (Sportways, White Stag, Voit/Swimaster, Healthways, Nemrod and Scubamasters) or they are not making parts for their older stuff (Dacor/Mares). Read the thread "dumped on by diving companies again" for more information on that problem. Another problem is counterfit stuff being sold. An example of this is the Scubapro NightHawk BC. You should know something is wrong if they want to sell a $500 BC new for $200. Also look at the buyer ... many are located out of the country and if something goes wrong then you are screwed. Buy from a local LDS or at least from a large internet shop like Dirers' Direct, LeisurePro, DiverDiscount, ect. The advantage of buying from your LDS (LocalDiveShop) is service and making sure everything works right.... the down size is price. Almost all used equipment sold on E Bay tells you to have it checked by your local shop. OK ..lets do the math : buying off E Bay you had to pay shipping ($12 to $15) then another $40 to the dive shop to check it out (and remember they not to happy that you didn't buy from them) plus the cost of any parts if needed. That used regulator could finally cost you additional $100 if you are unlucky. If you find a used regulator in the paper then check it out with a "fine tooth comb". Ask if there is anything wrong with it and could you hook it up to a tank and test it ......... also ask why they are selling it. I love my SCUBAPRO MK10 (have owned it for over 15 years) and with proper maintence it should last me another 15 years. It breaths as good if not better than alot of the new stuff on the market today.

 

[84CJ7]

I think I'll just stick with scubapro for all my regulator stuff, the idea of sticking new upgraded parts on an old rig is totally in my nature thanks to Jeeping and they seem a good company in general to boot. Thanks.

 

[Bob3]

Don't forget the Poseidon regs, my 30+ year old Cyklon 300s use the same 2nd stage rebuild kits as the new 5000s. (at about $5 a pop).

 

[Walter]

I have a 1955 Overpressure Aqualung I use from time to time. Single stage, double hose, but still works.

 

[AevnsGrandpa]

I just started last year and bought off another diver a complete US Divers Conshelf SE2 system, meaning both the 1st stage, 2nd stage and octo.

Got the whole thing with a Sherwood console for $125.00. Spent another $100 on service and a new boot for the console and I've been go to go ever since.

I did research the regs here on the board and found out it was a very reliable and many people have them for 10+ years. The ones I got I think are 15 years old or so.

Eventually I will buy new, but for a newbie it was nice to be able to pick good used equipment and still am to be maintained.

Jeff

 

[rescuediver009]

Nothing wrong with the old conshelfs. Around here they are the most popular easily maintained reg that still has parts available for its age. Anyone can service it and the parts last a while. So yeah you will be good to go for a while. The best thing is that they are really good performers too.
Any older reg is good as long as it is properly maintained and mets todays standards. They are not the most asthetically pleasing but as long as the bits and pieces perform they are good for any recreational diving.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

It must be my age, but I have never found a lump of plastic to be asthetically pleasing. Give me a chrome plated brass second stage any day. Of course, I also like the looks of the D400, but the exposed bits are mostly rubber rather than plastic.

Graphite composite/plastic second stages are cheap to produce and have been pushed on divers as light weight solutions to jaw fatigue by the marketing folks.

But in fact, a much larger case is needed to accomodate the same size diaphragm and compact plastic second stages end up using small diaphragms that have a potentially negative effect on performance. And a brass second stage will not crack when you drop a tank or weight belt on it or give you drymouth on a long dive.

And jaw fatigue is more effectively addressed with a quality mouthpiece and a proper lenght LP hose or a long hose.

Regulator performance has not significantly increased in any meaningful way in the last 20 years but quality has often declined. Newer is not always better.