USCGC McCulloch (Point Conception, CA -- 300 fsw)

[beldridg]

It didn't really resolve anything. NOAA has a permit system that can be denied on any grounds for the Monitor. I think Gentile should have hit harder on the international waters argument.

On Monday I met James Delagado who ranted to me that all wrecks within 200 miles of the coast are owned and protected by our government. Let's see if that holds up in court.

Yeah, I think the question arises by what is meant by "owned and protected."

As long as I don't take anything (which I never do) then I wonder what they could legally say? The USS Monitor (rightly or wrongly) has a permit system in place. The McCulloch (AFAIK) doesn't so there doesn't seem to be anything that would prevent from legally diving it -- as long as they leave everything in place.

It is veering a bit off topic, but it seems like they could / should come up with a system that allows people who have gone through a process (NDA, legally agree not to disturb, etc.) could dive these sites. NOAA could benefit since they don't really have the resources to monitor changes in the wrecks and by allowing private citizens to submit photos, video, etc. they could keep track of them.

- brett

 

[Kendall Raine]

California coastal waters are still hiding a lot of history

Very true, but the u/w topography (versus, for example, the East Coast) means a lot of that history is beyond scuba diving depths which makes this situation particularly noteworthy.

 

[covediver]

Very true, but the u/w topography (versus, for example, the East Coast) means a lot of that history is beyond scuba diving depths which makes this situation particularly noteworthy.

Yep, gets real deep, real quick. A lot of the nearshore wrecks get pounded by the neveer ending waves. It can be dangerous too. I recall NOAA lost a vessel in the area of Point Conception about 25 years ago that they thought was tucked into a sheltered cove. Lots of wrecks in the Point Conception area either turned too early or too late to make the Channel.

 

[Jared0425]

I generally takes a preservationist point of view given my background but do not equate nonconsumptive diving with exploitation. Lots of folks outside of government seem to be looking. Technology has made it a lot easier but they seem to be spending a lot of their own money and time to look. That is a good thing, I think. It is not easy given the inaccuracies of wreck reports, newspaper accounts, after action reports. But all that is well in my past. California coastal waters are still hiding a lot of history as are the Great Lakes. Discovered that researching my great grandfather's life as a marine engineer on the Great Lakes years ago.

I have been part of about 30 wreck discoveries in the last 15 years on Lake Huron, St. Clair, and Erie. It's a lot of work and dangerous on days. Not one wreck report that I have come across has been accurate.

We are not out there stripping wrecks and causing controversy for the most part. There's only one wreck that we have considered salvaging, and decided against because the cost benefit would be only a 4% profit.

What ship did your grandfather work on?

 

[johndiver999]

What will they do if you publish the numbers?

If our government will deliberately withhold information from its' citizens, then why shouldn't the citizens share the information (which was obtained legally) between themselves?

 

[wnissen]

Just want to say that it's a great dive and an even better writeup, highly recommend clicking through the parent post for pictures and details.

 

[beldridg]

Just want to say that it's a great dive and an even better writeup, highly recommend clicking through the parent post for pictures and details.

Thanks very much for reading it and your comments.

- brett

 

[Jared0425]

What will they do if you publish the numbers?

If our government will deliberately withhold information from its' citizens, then why shouldn't the citizens share the information (which was obtained legally) between themselves?

We are hijacking Brett's post. With exception to Monitor and the Isle Royale wreck, there's nothing as of now stopping divers from seeking wrecks.

We can start a new thread to argue laws.

 

[covediver]

Yeah, I think the question arises by what is meant by "owned and protected."

As long as I don't take anything (which I never do) then I wonder what they could legally say? The USS Monitor (rightly or wrongly) has a permit system in place. The McCulloch (AFAIK) doesn't so there doesn't seem to be anything that would prevent from legally diving it -- as long as they leave everything in place.

It is veering a bit off topic, but it seems like they could / should come up with a system that allows people who have gone through a process (NDA, legally agree not to disturb, etc.) could dive these sites. NOAA could benefit since they don't really have the resources to monitor changes in the wrecks and by allowing private citizens to submit photos, video, etc. they could keep track of them.

- brett

I have been part of about 30 wreck discoveries in the last 15 years on Lake Huron, St. Clair, and Erie. It's a lot of work and dangerous on days. Not one wreck report that I have come across has been accurate.

We are not out there stripping wrecks and causing controversy for the most part. There's only one wreck that we have considered salvaging, and decided against because the cost benefit would be only a 4% profit.

What ship did your grandfather work on?

John Duncan, Christopher Columbus, illinois.
Great Lakes history still resides in attics, dusty archives, family photo albums. My grandmother had pictures of the Duncan sinking at Houghton. It was refloated. It was in several accidents as were many of the Great Lakes steamers. She was laid up on Jones Island in Milwaukee for a couple of years before the.need for bottoms for increased trade during WW1 brought ger out of retirement. She was "sold foeign" to Canadian interests before being broken up. A fairly typical story for wood steamers constructed in the late 1800s.

Great Lakes maritime history is pretty fascinating. I wrote a story for Scuba Diving magazine sometime ago about diving wrecks in Munising, the Straits, and Copper Harbor. All those wrecks are pretty fascinating .

 

[covediver]

Jared is right. The thread is drifting from Brett's remarkable discovery and report. Apologies. Discussions of California and Great Lakes has that unintended effect.