US Expat fatality in Vanuatu

[CuzzA]

Doesn't the Deep Diver course introduce decompression diving? I thought you had to perform an 8 minute simulated deco stop.

I'm not arguing she was qualified to do this dive from the description of her previous dives, but from a certification stand point I could see a defendant arguing she was supposed to be trained to do this type of dive. (Maybe not wreck penetration) Of course bad gas throws any defense out the window. Negligent manslaughter?

 

[Wookie]

Doesn't the Deep Diver course introduce decompression diving? I thought you had to perform an 8 minute simulated deco stop.

I'm not arguing she was qualified to do this dive from the description of her previous dives, but from a certification stand point I could see a defendant arguing she was supposed to be trained to do this type of dive. (Maybe not wreck penetration) Of course bad gas throws any defense out the window. Negligent manslaughter?

From the PADI website:
Your training starts by reviewing reasons for deep diving and how important it is to know your personal limits. During four deep dives with your instructor, you’ll go over:

• Specialized deep diving equipment.
• Deep dive planning, buddy contact procedures and buoyancy control.
• Managing your gas supply, dealing with gas narcosis and safety considerations.

I haven't taught the deep specialty in a number of years (like 15) but in my memory, deco is emphatically not included in the course. PADI was different when I became an instructor 20 years ago, but an introduction to Deco wasn't even on their radar back then. The tec-40 hadn't even been thought about, Drew Richardson was deep diving, but not on a PADI card.

Was there bad gas? I thought that was a supposition? Did any of the other divers complain, or was that just throwing something against the wall to see if it sticks? There are a hundred reasons a diver could go unresponsive during a dive, but on a guided dive beyond the diver's training and knowledge, the diver is counting on the guide to keep them safe, just like a DSD or any other dive the diver is not certified/trained for. The guide should have noticed he was one short.

 

[wgw04024]

It looks like by the profile she was just out of range of an advanced recommended max depth. I guess the part that I'd be most concerned about is how someone goes 'missing' at that depth. The deeper you go, in my mind, the more aware of these things you need to be. Buddy proximity and air. How is the vis at this local?

 

[CuzzA]

From the PADI website:
Your training starts by reviewing reasons for deep diving and how important it is to know your personal limits. During four deep dives with your instructor, you’ll go over:

• Specialized deep diving equipment.
• Deep dive planning, buddy contact procedures and buoyancy control.
• Managing your gas supply, dealing with gas narcosis and safety considerations.

I haven't taught the deep specialty in a number of years (like 15) but in my memory, deco is emphatically not included in the course. PADI was different when I became an instructor 20 years ago, but an introduction to Deco wasn't even on their radar back then. The tec-40 hadn't even been thought about, Drew Richardson was deep diving, but not on a PADI card.

Was there bad gas? I thought that was a supposition? Did any of the other divers complain, or was that just throwing something against the wall to see if it sticks? There are a hundred reasons a diver could go unresponsive during a dive, but on a guided dive beyond the diver's training and knowledge, the diver is counting on the guide to keep them safe, just like a DSD or any other dive the diver is not certified/trained for. The guide should have noticed he was one short.

For clarification PADI's website doesn't go into detail about the 4 dives and tasks of the Deep Diver course. I now realize the deco stop is considered "emergency" so that definitely needs to be considered. I haven't done the course so I was speaking from memory and now the below quote.

Open Water Training Dive 3

The recommended depth: 90 feet to 130 feet
By the end of this open water training session, you will be able to:

• Execute a descent using a reference line, wall or sloping bottom as a tactile guide.
• Compare the amount of time needed to complete a task on the surface and at depth.
• Perform an ascent using a reference line as a tactile guide.
• Use a depth gauge and timing device (or decompression computer with ascent-rate indicator) to measure an ascent rate not to exceed 60 feet per minute.
• Perform an 8-minute simulated emergency decompression stop at 15 feet before surfacing, while breathing from an emergency air source for at least one minute of the total time.

PADI Deep Diver specialty course

Tainted gas has been mentioned several times throughout this thread. I'm not speculating that was the cause, only stating that if the gas was tainted there would be no defense for that and, (atleast in the US) I could see a possible negligent manslaughter charge. Not sure about the laws in the country where the incident occured.

 

[Wookie]

I would think that negligent manslaughter would be the least of the worries, and that abandoning your uncertified diver at depth for 32 minutes would be at least that stiff. I'm no lawyer, but I would think that bad air is a civil matter, where the abandoning the diver under your care and protection would be a criminal one.

 

[CuzzA]

Well that could be tough for a prosecutor to prove in court. Did he intentionally abandon the diver? I doubt it. Is he a crappy guide? Probably. With a deco obligation, limited amount of air and we don't know the conditions top side I think the time from when they got seperated until she was brought to the surface is difficult to put the blame on someone. Furthermore, he may not have known she was dead. But for the sake of this conversation, you said "uncertified diver", does the Deep Diver certification justify allowing her to do this dive? Are there actual scuba diving laws on the books in this country? Is it common for recreational divers to dive this wreck? It is within recomended recreational limits. I suppose a prosecutor could argue the dive plan itself was negligent if the Deep Diver certification specifically does not allow for deco diving per commercial agency rules, yet the guide did it anyway. There's also the question about the guide lying. Was it intentional or was he freaked out and mixed up his timeline of what happened? Could that be considered obstruction of justice? Bad gas on the other hand, can prove "with physical evidence" the operations negligence resulted in someone's death.

Lots of questions. Whether it's civil or criminal or both, or neither, it sounds like we're going to find out by some fantastic work done by clownfishsydney.

 

[Zippsy]

Even worse than that. From 16 minutes when she stopped moving to 48 minutes when she ascended, no one noticed she was missing. We heard on page 1 that these are 20 minute dives always with conservative deco. She went missing when she should have been under the supervision pf the dive guide. At the worst, he might have noticed she was missing, cleared his deco to look for her on the surface, and signaled shore/boat support that he had a missing diver, but that doesn't take 32 minutes. Trust me on this one, when a diver disappears, an alert dive guide notices in less than a minute and has a search organized in a couple. The reason Michael can't talk about it is because someone is going to jail.

I admit that I haven't read everything but I assume that there was time for a search included in that 32 minutes. I don't know how long they actually searched but it likely took up a bunch of that time, no?

 

[wgw04024]

Did it say what kind of air supply they had, her and the guide? Al80, St100, doubles, etc? In my experience going to 110' (i know it's not 130), that can be done on one tank, especially in the time that it looks like on the profile. And, depending on the computer, is it an absolute that a deco stop was mandatory? It looks like she was between 90-130' for a total of about 6 minutes.

 

[CuzzA]

I believe I read earlier they each had single 100's.

 

[wgw04024]

I believe I read earlier they each had single 100's.

Ok, that being that, they might of had some deco obligations if they weren't air pigs.