Underwater protection

[JeffG]

but I don't think you can argue that GUE has, as part of it's mission, environmental conservation.

But what does it mean?

I think you're more upset about the fact that the OP claims that spearfishing or lobstering of any sort is not environmentally friendly, so why don't we just have that argument and leave GUE and DIR out of the equation.

You have a serious reading comprehension problem.

Go back and read the original thread. See who was making the connection of DIR and spearfishing.

 

[LG Diver]

Go back and read the original thread. See who was making the connection of DIR and spearfishing.

Sorry- My last statement about about leaving DIR out of the equation wasn't directed to you, but rather to the OP. I should have been more clear with that.

You have a serious reading comprehension problem.

That would imply that I bothered to read the whole thread that this all originated from. My responses in this thread are directed solely at what's been posted in this thread.

 

[nadwidny]

I think you're more upset about the fact that the OP claims that spearfishing or lobstering of any sort is not environmentally friendly, so why don't we just have that argument and leave GUE and DIR out of the equation.

Thinking that Jeff is upset over this is your first mistake. Well...maybe 2nd.

 

[lamont]

The damage swath inherently left by cave divers in caves is reasonably permanent and decidedly non-conservationist. Every trip I'm going to take to florida or mexico or elsewhere I'm going to damage nature a little bit in a way that it won't easily rebound from. The only trick is to attempt to minimize it.

That is actually worse than spearfishing or hunting (typically), since there's few enough scuba divers hunting that the population should replenish. And hunting with scuba is *way* better than other methods since there's zero bycatch, and it doesn't damage the rest of the environment like bottom trawling. Its probably more environmentally friendly to stock your freezer using your scuba gear than to buy the same catch from the supermarket or fishmonger.

Then there's also just the inherent environmental issues with scuba diving. The energy and CO2 that goes into making all the gear. The CO2 that goes into running the compressors. The CO2 emitted by your car on the way to the divesite, etc. Plus looking at steel tank production there's some nasty chemicals involved in that nice hot-dipped galvanized finish.

Still, that probably doesn't compare to the impact the fishing industry and trucking industry has in getting fish to your supermarket.

Oh, yeah, GI3 spearfishes...

 

[MonkSeal]

My intention wasn't to revive the old thread and I haven't mentioned sprearfishing here at all. Define "responsibility towards nature" as you like but Jeff's statements were very clear and I wanted to here some opinions. There was no taking anything out of context. If I want to state something I don't need anybody to explain what I wanted to say. I guess same applies to Jeff and I guess nobody here needs attorney.

 

[MonkSeal]

...so why don't we just have that argument and leave GUE and DIR out of the equation.

That was EXACTLY the point Jeff and I tried making to the OP...

Then that makes three of us.... I'm just more verbose.

Then we can continue the old thread which wasn't my intention.

 

[SparticleBrane]

The damage swath inherently left by cave divers in caves is reasonably permanent and decidedly non-conservationist.

From another point of view -- have you ever seen the damage left by dry cavers?

 

[danvolker]

I don't want to hijack old thread, so here's the new one. In other thread we discussed about underwater protection and I stated:



Some of replies were:





And here's the link to GUE Mission Statement About GUE | Global Underwater Explorers

Opinions?

Let's try the historical perspective...DIR came long before GUE. DIR was the compilation of all the good ideas and best configurations and practices of WKPP divers over many thousands of dives in Wakulla and many other extreme diving environments. It was mandated by George Irvine to all WKPP members, and new WKPP members would be essentially "mentored" into the new DIR skills over weeks or months until they were deemed ready for bigger and bigger missions into the power caves, etc.

There is "some" blurring here over the environmental issue in the thread topic here, because Wakulla was such a pristine area, and because WKPP was committed to leaving it in it's pristine state---meaning skills, practices, etc were engineered to cause minimal damage to this delicate environment. Ideas like not cutting huge holes into the access area as "Stone et al" of Wakulla II wanted to do, or not dragging gear over delicate cave bottom, and many other protectionist ideas permeated the compilation of skills, largely because of the Wakulla area and it's significance to the WKPP. When George went deep diving in the ocean with us, he brought DIR ideas and skills, which were quickly shown to offer huge advantages over our "old timer-passed down-spearfisherman-hunter" skill sets. DIR gave us better skills in penetrating wrecks while hunting fish at 280 feet deep, and massively enhanced our adventure potentials, as it allowed us to undertake greater challenges than any of us had ever considered before. It took us out of "deep air", led us into tri-mix, and got us to plan our "missions" better, and to be much safer.

Tech divers all over the world were hearing about DIR ( some hating George and DIR, some intrigued and liking it) largely through shared information on the Aquanaut web server ( techlist and cavelist.....these are still there by the way, as archives). Many people wanted to learn DIR, but WKPP was not in the teaching business, except for it's own members. This is where JJ comes in and creates GUE. As an equivalently superior DIR diver with George, but with massively more patience, JJ was a great instructor and good businessman, and was able to create a training agency which was able to teach DIR techniques--and add GUE ideas as well. In the early days of GUE, JJ and many of the GUE staff were what I would call "militant vegans"...a behavior set which has since been mitigated greatly, and is today much more of a common sense health behavior mandate--health food, exercise, etc. I have even heard that JJ eats meat on occaision now, but that could be just a viscious rumour

In any event, the ideas against hunting would not include DIR from the WKPP, but the GUE movement would have been more about eating algae than eating fish in it's early days..Today, I expect JJ would be pushing sustainable development, and would also consider spearfishing as far more desirable than commerical fishing practices--so GUE would be in lock step with this.
Hope this helps.
Dan

 

[lamont]

thanks dan!